‘Arrow’ 6×11: “We Fall” Roundtable

Chanel vs. Walmart. Original Team Arrow vs. New Team Arrow. We’ve got a lot of feelings about the latest episode of Arrow, “We Fall,” as the newbies became even more annoying and hypocritical than we thought.

From Oliver and Felicity teaming up on parenting William to the hypocrisy of New Team Arrow, our Fangirlish writers Alyssa, Lizzie, Lyra, Charles, Lacey, and Kayla are breaking down the latest episode of Arrow. Here we go!

Describe your thoughts about “We Fall” using just six words.

Alyssa: Domestic Olicity rules and screw the newbies.




Lizzie: Olicity is all I care about.

Lyra: Here for OTP domesticity and OTA.

Charles: Newbies are still acting like jerks.

Lacey: Anyone else suspicious of the internet?

Kayla: Domestic Olicity is the cutest thing.

Describe your feelings about “We Fall” using a gif.

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Charles:

Kayla:

William learned that Oliver has continued being the Green Arrow despite promising him he wouldn’t. What are your thoughts on William’s objections to Oliver going out in the field and eventually realizing that the city needs his dad as much as he does?

Alyssa: While William hasn’t been a character I’ve been particularly fond of, I have to admit that I can see where he’s coming from in insisting that his father not risk himself as Green Arrow. And then I also understand where Oliver is coming from in having to suit up again — with Diggle getting hurt and Team Arrow separating. But Oliver should’ve told William the moment that he started suiting up again. Honesty — the exact thing that Felicity told Oliver when it comes to communication between father and child.  Had Oliver had this conversation with William before, William’s reaction wouldn’t have been extreme. But times have also changed since the early episodes of season 6 — Oliver and Felicity are married and Felicity has become a mother figure for William. William’s fear after losing his mother was that he was going to become an orphan — it’s why he wanted Oliver to stop. But Felicity’s beautiful monologue helped William see that while it’s certainly okay for William to worry about his dad’s well-being, there are other people that also depend on him. Things are different for William — he has Felicity now. He’s beginning to understand what it means to love someone that is someone that an entire city depends on; what it means to love a hero.

Lizzie: It’s completely understandable, and as Alyssa said, only slightly annoying because the show punctuates a wrong with a lie, like they usually do. It’s like, at this point, Oliver’s not just naive, he’s stupid. EVERY ONE OF HIS SECRETS HAS COME OUT. Did he really think he could keep being a vigilante a secret from William? Let’s not into the fact that he shouldn’t have to, why did he even think he could? Things like that make me question if characters are even engaging in higher brain function, and it’s such a silly writing mistake. It bothers me.

That being said, and back to William, yes, it was understandable, and his reaction are borne out of love and out of fear. He lost his mom and he doesn’t want to lose his dad now that he just found him. It’d be weirder for me if he were all like yay my dad’s a vigilante. I do think Felicity’s speech, and her presence in general, help William not just feel less alone, but understand that there’s a bigger picture, even if it’s not one we should be asking a kid his age to grasp.

Lyra: Williams feelings are a natural consequence of all the trauma this kid has experienced since his dad came into his life. Between having his life put in danger and losing his mother, of course he’s gonna be wary about Oliver partaking in any late night superhero activity. Even I would feel like that. And after this episode it’s not going to be rainbows and butterflies. William might understand and he might have Felicity, but he’s still going to worry about his dad’s safety. Who wouldn’t? At least, now he understands and Oliver won’t have that hanging over his head (so much) while out on the field.

Charles: No kid wants to see their dad in danger. Remember that this is a kid who lost his mother just less than a year ago. That pain don’t go away and think you are going to lose your father just as you have gotten close to him would hurt anyone. Felicity’s speech to William helped explain to him why it is tough to see them in danger but also the need to be strong for them as well. Yes he does have Felicity as well and I think that eases his worry some too as well. It helped show him that he will need to calm that worry and fear to be as tough and strong for Oliver as Oliver is for him.

Kayla: I think Oliver should’ve told William sooner. I do like how Felicity explained it to him though. William had a valid reason to object to it cause he doesn’t want to lose his dad. However, now he’s sees how good Oliver is at being the Green Arrow and he also has Felicity now to help him deal with it – as she has to worry about Oliver too. She has been dealing with all this much longer than William and can give him perspective. In the past, all he had was Oliver. That’s just not the case anymore.

This episode showed us Oliver and Felicity working as a parenting team with William. What are your thoughts on this new family structure, and what would you like to see moving forward?

Alyssa: Honestly, this was my favorite part of the episode. This is exactly what I’ve wanted as a fan of Olicity for years. I want to see them navigate this world as a married couple and tackle things as a team. Oliver and Felicity were so cute — from their good morning kisses to co-parenting techniques to Queen family meetings. I watch Arrow and television in general because of the characters and their relationships. I watch because I care. And this is the stuff that I care about. I care about these characters as individuals and as a team. This was the one thing missing in the midseason premiere, and I’m glad that there was such a focus on this in “We Fall.” I hope this is something we get to see more of moving forward. I want to see more of Oliver and Felicity as a team on Team Arrow and as a married couple, whether that’s parenting William or navigating the ups and downs of marriage and what this show throws their way. It shows that the excitement doesn’t stop once a couple gets married. In fact, that story is only beginning.

Lizzie: I want another storyline for Felicity more than anything, but I really like this storyline that’s not necessarily just hers, and that shouldn’t be all she does. Thing is, though, we’ve always known Oliver and Felicity could be a team, and that they would be a hell of a team, and as much as this is not all Felicity is, this is also not a bad thing. Being a wife and a mother is not a bad thing, and women shouldn’t be ridiculed for wanting that as much or even more than a career sometimes. I don’t think Felicity is that person, and I don’t necessarily trust the writers in general, but being a wife and a mother is not a bad thing. Period. And right this, this is the thing that works the best in this show. BY FAR.

Moving forward, I’d like Felicity to get a storyline outside of this, though – and outside of Team Arrow. I want her to get her company, I’ve wanted that for ages. I want the being a wife and mother thing to be a complement, not the only thing she does.

Lyra: Let’s talk about my favorite favorite part of this episode, Felicity acknowledging that parenting and domesticity are unknown things to her. She doesn’t know how to be a mom. She doesn’t know what it is to have a husband. And she doesn’t know how to do this family stuff. But you know what? That girl is trying! She reads up on stuff, meets Oliver & William half way, and has no problem saying that she’s reached her level of domesticity. Yes, it was said in a playful manner. But it was also said because she’s out of her depth. AND THAT’S OK!

Charles: I liked it and it was nice to see it there but not dominate the show. I know some would like it too but you have to have that mix without letting one certain thing overrun the show. Olicity is good right now. Oliver and Felicity are happy with each other and being parents. Now if you wanted to see Felicity in a different storyline, you might not be satisfied completely. There’s still time for that to be changed but at the moment there’s nothing more you could ask for right now as a Olicity fan in my opinion.

Kayla: I really like this structure and I’m definitely looking forward to more of it. Even William defended Felicity to a classmate because he is beginning to see how awesome of a step mom he has. I love seeing Olicity parent together.

Describe your feelings about Original Team Arrow (Oliver, Felicity, Diggle) using a gif.

Alyssa: 

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Charles:

Kayla:

Describe your feelings for New Team Arrow (Dinah, Rene, and Curtis) using a gif.

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Charles:


Kayla:

Ever since Team Arrow split into two — Original Team Arrow and New Team Arrow — the newbies have refused to entertain any notion of reconciliation. What are your thoughts on New Team Arrow? Are their feelings justified or are they just being arrogant?

Alyssa: I ranted about New Team Assholes for a good portion of my review this week, but I’d be more than happy to rant again. My hatred lies mostly with Rene and Curtis, who have both done enough to garner them “most annoying” character. I honestly don’t know who’s more hypocritical between the two of them. I’m just curious: Do the Arrow writers truly believe that anyone would side with NTA over Original Team Arrow? Another: Does NTA actually believe that they’d be where they are now without Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity? NTA is just not likeable. They come off as arrogant, immature, and selfish. I understand the feelings of betrayal, but it goes both ways.

Rene has seemed to forget that it was his betrayal that led to this mess. He turned Oliver in for his own selfish reasons. Dinah was keeping the secret of communicating with her ex, who proved to be an enemy at the time. Then you have Curtis that just seems to get more annoying and hypocritical as this series goes on. Rene and Curtis spent more time complaining about Oliver and being salty over OTA’s gloriousness than actually trying to save the city. They seem to forget their own behavior and try to play the saint card. Get the hell over yourselves. You’re not the shit. You’re just shit. I feel bad for Dinah because she doesn’t deserve to be lumped in with these two morons. She just seems lost right now, and she happened to choose the wrong side.

Honestly, I’d prefer if Arrow kept Oliver, Felicity, and Diggle separate from the others for the foreseeable future or forever. Except maybe Dinah. She can come back eventually. But Curtis and Rene have just been taking the pleasure out of the show. They’re doing nothing but complaining and being hypocritical. Please, do away with them.

Lizzie: *rolls eyes* Are they always wrong? No. Are they unbearably arrogant at times, ESPECIALLY Wild Dog? Hell yes. Do I like them? Not so much right now, no. And the only one I ever really liked was Dinah to begin with. And I’m not even here to defend Oliver’s also arrogant ass. No, he’s not always right. But he’s been doing this job for a hell of a lot longer, and so have Diggle and Felicity, and the newbies could still stand to learn a thing or 25. This is not about who’s the best vigilante – this is about what’s best for the city. And this? Them being arrogant and not accepting an apology? That’s not best for anyone.

Lyra: The “new” team is acting like a bunch of spoiled children who want mommy, daddy, and uncle to get on their knees and beg for forgiveness. Things ain’t black and white and I understand why they don’t feel “comfortable” with OTA. But you’re not the bee’s knee’s New Team Dorks. You make mistakes, you fumble, and you act like a bunch of entitled children who want mommy, daddy, and uncle to bend over and admit that they did New Team Dorks wrong, that Felicity likes to “bug them”, and that “pulling an Oliver Queen” is an acceptable slur to throw at someone. Well, you know what New Team Dorks? NOT TODAY! Get your shit together and stop acting like whiny children that are upset that their Nintendo Switch was taken away from them. Newsflash, it wasn’t taken away from you and you are adults. You decided to leave that Nintendo Switch behind and opt for a PSP. Now suck it up buttercups and act like that PSP is the best thing in the world or shape up, realize your family makes mistakes, and go home to play that Nintendo Switch.

Kayla: I think Rene and Curtis are definitely a little too arrogant for their own good. I can’t speak for Dinah, but I don’t like this new team Arrow. Felicity reached out with intel, and they just shut her down. Right now, they get on my nerves.

In this episode, we learned Cayden James’ motivation for taking down Oliver — his son was killed by a rogue arrow shot by the Green Arrow. Only thing is that Oliver wasn’t in Star City or the Green Arrow at that time. Who do you think is behind framing Oliver? And what are your thoughts on Cayden’s motivation?

Alyssa: Been there, done that with the motivation. Last season, Prometheus sought to take down Oliver and his loved ones for killing his father. I long for the days when villains were fueled by more complex motives. Cayden’s motivation, while repetitive, is certainly something that’s believable. When parents lose a child or their child is hurt, there’s nothing that they won’t do to avenge them. So it’s easy to see why Cayden is targeting Oliver specifically. As for who’s framing Oliver, the only name that comes to mind is Anatoly, who is fueled by Oliver’s “betrayal” last season. Other than that, I can’t really think of someone intentionally framing him.

Lizzie: I wish I cared, I really do.

Lyra: Linus…I mean, Cayden…you are an evil genius but you believe that Oliver did your son dirty and killed him even though Oliver wasn’t in Star City and wasn’t the Green Arrow? I have more faith in you Benjamin…I mean, Cayden. Dig a little deeper and look for whose framing Oliver. It might be the Man in Black…I mean, Malcolm Merlyn. Where is that guy nowadays? Still bothering the Waverider? When in doubt, ask where Malcolm Merlyn is. He’s probably behind it all!

Kayla: His motivation is something all parents would have after thinking they lost their child like that. I can’t say who could be framing Oliver, but I’m sure it will come to light sooner or later.

Join us for another DCTV roundtable next week!



Alyssa Barbieri

Senior Managing Editor

Teacher by day, writer by every other free moment. Obsessed with sports, TV, books, movies, and superheroes. Proud shipper and supporter of strong female characters. TV Editor and Sports Editor. I write about DCTV, This Is Us and so much more. Contact: alyssa@fangirlish.com.