‘Crisis on Earth-X’ Roundtable

This year’s DCTV mega crossover was the network’s biggest and most controversial to date. Our favorite characters from across the Arrowverse came together for Barry Allen & Iris West’s wedding. But things went from good to bad to worse when Nazis showed up to ruin their wedding and the tone of the crossover event. We’ve got some choice words regarding the inclusion of Nazis, but aside from that we were impressed with the crossover event!

Our Fangirlish writers Alyssa, Lizzie, Lyra, Charles, Sarah, Jade, Kayla, Lariel, and Katherine are breaking down the epic crossover event. Here we go!

Describe your thoughts about “Crisis on Earth-X” using just six words.

Alyssa: Would’ve been perfect except for Nazis.

Lizzie: Nazis are always a bad idea.

Lyra: Nazis are the worst. The end.

Charles: Loved everything but the fucking Nazis.

Sarah: Loved? No Liked? Yes….WHY NAZIS?!

Lariel: Emotional overload that didn’t need Nazis.

Kayla: WTF Nazis? WestAllen and Olicity weddings!

Jade: Would have been better without Nazis.

Katherine: Nazis are never a good idea.

Describe your feelings about “Crisis on Earth-X” using a gif.

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Charles:

Jade:

Katherine:

Let’s tackle the thorny issue first – Nazis. Do you agree with the decision to use Nazis and Nazi imagery? Do you think the crossover handled it in a respectful way? What would you have done differently, if you could?

Alyssa: No, no, and, oh yeah, NO. Honestly, it would’ve been one thing if The CW had actually chosen to address this issue the right way. But the thing that was disgusting in all of this is how The CW attempted to sympathize with Nazis. Like, “Nazis are people too. Nazis have feelings too. Nazis can love, too.” I’m sorry, but fuck that. We don’t need you to attempt to make them human. Then again, this wasn’t something that was going to work anyway. The CW is not the network to handle this topic in the right way.

The thing is, this entire crossover event could’ve been done without Nazis. There was no explanation as to why the Nazi of it was significant. Our heroes going up against bad guys? Didn’t have to be Nazis. Our heroes facing evil dopplegangers? Didn’t have to be Nazis. Our heroes showing courage in the face of danger and oppression? Didn’t have to be Nazis. The use of Nazis was purely for shock value. Except Nazis are NOT entertainment.

It’s so frustrating because this crossover event, as a whole, was incredible. The balance between heart, humor, action, and conflict. The balance between all of the characters from all four shows and the fact that it felt like a crossover event — and not just a normal episode with cameos. The huge scope of the entire thing that rivaled Justice League. But the misuse and unnecessary use of Nazis really soured it for me.

Lizzie: Answer is a big, fat no. No, they didn’t handle it well, not, they shouldn’t have done it, and no, nazis are not a good idea. But my issues go beyond that, and though I went into it in detail in my Arrow review of episode 2 of the crossover, I just want to stress a few more points.

I didn’t expect the CW to do this story justice, and so, honestly, they should just have stayed away from it. I’m not saying we need to stay away from ever using nazis, but I’m saying humanizing them, and presenting them as cartoonish super villains who can be so handily defeated is an insult to the millions of people who perished, and the countless others who fought against them for years. But other than that, there was just a complete disregard to …well, how sensitive the subject was. Sure, let’s show a mass grave IN A CONCENTRATION CAMP, without even a trigger warning, cause hey, why not? SHOCK VALUE.

And that’s the problem – the nazis weren’t around to send a message about nazis, they were around for shock value. And if you’re gonna bring nazis into the picture, it better be to send a message about how bad nazism is. If not, then just regular evil doppelgangers would have worked just as well.

Lyra: 

If I could’ve had it my way I would’ve completely omitted/erased/destroyed the fact that they were Nazis and just made them evil versions of themselves who liked to wear dark clothes, the color red, and pants. I would’ve not linked the heroes that we’ve come to love over seasons with Nazis, you know…THOSE GUYS THAT WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEATH OF MILLIONS! And it’s not like this happened thousands of years ago where I could be seen as “overreacting.” The liberation of Holocaust survivors was 72 years ago. This means that some of the people who survived are actually still alive. Their stories are still fresh in the minds of their loved ones and the pain is oh so real. Keeping that all in mind I don’t understand why anyone, including DCTV, think it’s alright to use Nazis as their bad guys.

Stay in your lane.

And if you decide to not do that you need to bring in respected members/organizations that have survived the Holocaust and can help guide you in representing what happened in a respectful way that doesn’t retraumatize viewers again. If DCTV would’ve done this then I think we could’ve avoided Nazis being “regular people” who deserve our sympathies, putting our heroes in concentration camps, or creating a sign into one of the most notorious camps ever during the Holocaust, Auschwitz.

Charles: No they shouldn’t have used Nazis and especially Nazi imagery like concentration camps. What I would have done is what the Marvel movies did and had DC/CW use a Hydra-type organization instead of just doing the Nazi imagery. That way while still not perfect, at least fans would be triggered by some of what they saw on the screen as some at they were.

Sarah: If I had to use a single word: NO. Every time the Nazi imagery was shown, it felt like the ultimate height of disrespect I’d ever seen in the television industry. If you are asking why, I’m here to state it’s plain as day since NAZIS ARE NOT ENTERTAINMENT. I’ll say this as many times as it takes to drill it into these writer’s heads. There couldn’t be any respectful way to handle including Nazis, when they shouldn’t have been included in the first place.

Lariel: Right after the first two parts aired, I tweeted that the Death Eaters of Harry Potter were more Nazi-like than the Nazis of the crossover. There’s really little difference between a Dark Mark and a swastika, between the epithet “mudblood” and the rhetoric of the Third Reich, except that the former is fictional and the latter is tragic fact. But JK Rowling got it right when she created her world; the symbolism was not as important as exposing the heinousness of the ideas behind the symbols. On the first night of the crossover, we got the Nazi symbols, but no real sense of the ideas beyond “you’re weak.” The Nazis of night one were rather generic bad guys. Cartoonish. And by making Overgirl sick with a heart condition, there was a ploy for sympathy for her. Someone could have thought, “These guys are not so bad.” It was on night two when they really went Third Reich – but that was too late to me.

Kayla: Ok, so I disagree with them using a version of our heroes as Nazis. Oliver and Kara are meant to be heroes and nothing more. Especially Kara. She’s so pure.

I’ve discussed this with a few friends who actually live in countries where the Nazis tore their countries apart and many felt that it was something that needed to be told. Like if you just ignore it, history will repeat itself.

I’ve been told stories from my late grandfather, who fought in WWII. He was a decorated soldier with a Purple Heart and a Pearl Harbor and DDay survivor. He saw the worst of it and he never shied away from the worst of it when telling me stories. I guess in hopes to remind me of the worst that people can do. My grandfather always made it clear to me that if you don’t talk, no one will listen. The story needs to be told.

However, the way they did it, wrong. I knew these writers would fail with this cause they have no tact to handle such a controversial topic. You don’t make us sympathize with a Nazi by making them sick, and especially not the strongest female superhero to walk the earth.

I don’t know how I would’ve handled it, but Lariel’s words of how JK Rowling wrote the Death Eaters in Harry Potter is a much better description than the Arrowverse writers did.

Jade: I never really expected the CW to handle this issue well. It just isn’t the kind of network you can picture facing a subject this big and important and intense head-on. Particularly across a series of shows that skew younger (that they want to skew younger). If you’re looking for an analysis of what Nazism was or how it came to be or why it can never happen again, the CW just isn’t the kind of network that’s ever going to give you that. So I expected at the end of the day that I would feel there could have been more they could have done.

I didn’t necessarily expect to feel that they could have done almost anything at all and been better. At the very least, I expected in a bunch of superhero shows to at least get the message that heroes stand up against Nazis because they stand up against evil. They may not always be flawless, but they stand up for what’s right. That at the very least they will always fight against Nazis because Nazis need to be fought against. Or even just “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” and so they choose to fight when nobody else can or will because they refuse to be good men who do nothing.

I didn’t really get any of that in this crossover. Even in the little moments, I felt the wrong message was being sent. Nazi impersonating Oliver couldn’t kill Jewish concentration camp prisoner Felicity because she looks like the woman he loves. It’s all well and good he loves her, but shouldn’t he have refused to kill literally anybody in that situation because…he’s not a Nazi and killing any innocent person who has been persecuted and put into a concentration camp is not what heroes do?

Shouldn’t they have fought on Earth X to free the people in the concentration camps because they knew for a fact that innocent people were being imprisoned and killed in concentration camps? Shouldn’t they have fought Nazi Oliver and Company because they’re FREAKING NAZIS? Instead of deciding to fight them insofar as they were trying to invade Earth and steal Kara’s heart? They fought against the Nazis to stop them from invading their own Earth and to save Kara, and once that was done, it was like Earth X (and the people they saw with their own eyes were being persecuted and murdered there) were no longer even a passing thought.

And, frankly, I said it on Twitter that night but I stand by it. If the CW was going to tell a story about Nazis on DCTV shows, then Oliver Queen is just about the last character that story should have been about. Certainly not to the point of ignoring or minimizing the stories of those who would have been actually persecuted by Nazis. For who they are. For who they worship. For who they love.

I was willing to at least give the benefit of the doubt that the CW might not handle this topic as well as they should, but they would at least try to get some basic message across. About the nature of good versus evil, if nothing else. Sadly, as the crossover went on, I didn’t feel any of that. They failed to even show the heroes fighting for the innocent because fighting for the innocent is what heroes do! Ultimately, they could have made the exact same episodes with general evil doppelgangers from another earth. And so I think they definitely failed to do this story properly and should have had random evil doppelgangers from another Earth. If you don’t have a message to send about Nazis specifically, then you shouldn’t use Nazis at all.

Katherine: No, come on CW. Why would you even attempt to do this storyline, there was absolutely no need for the villains in this crossover to be Nazis. Given the CW’s record of handling controversial (not a good one) I had no confidence that they would handle this issue well. That being said, why did it need to be Nazi’s at all? There was no need for that, they could have invented a new set of villains, or just made a world where they had the doppelgangers for all the characters be evil and under the rule of the evil Oliver Queen without him being a freaking Nazi!

I completely agree with the notion that the Death Eaters in Harry Potter were a much better use of the horrible ideology than the crossover’s use of Nazis.

What was your favorite part of the crossover? Which two characters do you want to see interact more? Did you, perhaps, find a new ship? Share all your feelings.

Alyssa: Honestly, I really loved how this actually felt like a true crossover event. That was something that we’d been hearing about — how this year’s crossover would be a true crossover event. And that’s we got. This didn’t feel like just an episode of Supergirl, or just an episode of Arrow, or just an episode of The Flash, or just an episode of Legends of Tomorrow. This was a four-hour movie on network television that was impressive in its scope, its execution, its character dynamics, the emotion, the stakes, the declaration that the heroes aren’t only the ones that are masked or costumed. Everything was impressive about this crossover event. Except for the Nazis.

Any and every scene featuring Oliver and Barry’s dynamic is something that I always crave. They have such a great rapport and their scenes are always meaningful and delightful. So I would’ve liked a little bit more of that.

So I kind of assumed that we’d see a little Sara/Alex flirtation given the circumstances, but I have to admit that the dynamic actually captivated me more than I thought it would. The first night was all about the chemistry between the two, which was hot, hot, hot. But there was a satisfaction in how Sara and Alex bonded over shared experience and found a source of comfort and inspiration in one another. Now, this was never going to be a relationship that works out because of the logistics of it, but I definitely have a new ship in Salex or Dance or whatever you want to call it. “Beautiful by the way.”

Lizzie: I agree with Lariel that the last hour was my favorite part, as everyone was working together towards the same goal, and we got a chance to see more than two women on screen at the same time in a show other than Legends, a miracle in and of itself. I think my favorite interaction was Iris and Felicity, though I enjoyed Alex and Sara way more than I thought I was going to, and I need more from that connection. It doesn’t need to be romantic for me to like it, in fact, I’d love it if they could find a way to stay friends. Hey, Kara has that remote control that opens portals, so why not? ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

As for ship, what are we calling Snart/Ray? ColdRay? Because I’m here for that. It was so moving and refreshing to see two openly gay men playing two openly gay characters in a committed relationship, and to see them both play it as a functional couple who not just loved each other, but trusted each other. It gave me all the feels.

Lyra: Sara and Alex, hands down. I can see a big bright world opening up in front of me where they visit each other, give advice, or come to the other for help. The ideas are endless and I’m ashamed of myself for not looking up their fanfiction sooner.

I also really liked Barry and Oliver bonding, especially that scene where they were getting fitted for their suits. Things have changed and they’ve grown as men and superheroes. No longer are they the kind of people that think love will not come their way. Love is here and they have embraced it.

Charles: I enjoyed a lot of the character moments – Not just Olicity’s and Westallen’s but also the different mix and matches we were not use to seeing. Sara and Alex was a great one. Iris and Felicity working together was nice. The little Easter egg nod to Ray from Kara was cute as well. It was just cool seeing different pairings than you are use too.

Sarah: Honestly I really loved ALL the character interaction, especially people we saw cross paths who hadn’t before. I live for character development and this crossover would have had me dying of happy if it weren’t for f*cking Nazis, okay moving on. If I can see more of Iris and Felicity teaming up or having ladies night or both I’d be screaming yes at the TV. Ship wise oh I fell fast for Sara and Alex even if I knew it couldn’t last past the crossover. Those two ladies are awesome in their own right, but their connection was written really well since they literally never met before this, haha. Outside the characters though, I will say those group action scenes, especially in the church rocked. God bless everyone involved in pulling those scenes off because it worked!

Lariel: I thought the last hour was the best. We finally got everyone in the same place and working together. Some great iconic images. If they plan another big crossover, I suggest they really reorganize shooting schedules – perhaps start even earlier than they already do and treat the crossover shoot like a single movie rather than having actors split between their shows and the crossover. What I wanted more of: The Legends with the other teams. Particularly Zari, since she is the new Legend on the block.

Kayla: I loved Sara & Alex! I’m dying to see them crossover Legends & Supergirl just to see them interact again.

I always love Barry and Kara. Oliver and Barry, of course!

What I wanted…more Supergirl characters. Even if they are Earth X. A Resistance Fighter version of Mon-El would’ve made me very happy. They definitely could’ve used a man who can super leap on their side. Besides, Kara seeing that there is another version of the man she loves out there fighting for good might give her clarity to her situation back home.

Jade: I was of course glad to see Iris more involved in the action. I enjoyed Alex and Sara together. It isn’t a sustainable ship, since the two are on different shows. But they worked well off each other. I might actually have enjoyed more interactions between Caitlin and Mick, but they stuck her in a literal box for the entire duration of her own show. I would have LOVED to see Cisco and Ray interact more, but they Cisco was knocked out and then stuck in a box of his own, and Ray was left out of most of the crossover. So there wasn’t really much opportunity for that to happen. I do like that the crossover was pieced together more seamlessly than it has been in the past. There are still some interactions I would have loved to see fleshed out more. Not every interaction will have the time for much focus in every crossover, though, and I get that. But, frankly, given that the crossover was advertised for the Westallen wedding, I would have liked at least one more scene of Barry and Iris dealing with what happened without interruption.

Katherine: My favorite part of the crossover was that it truly felt like an event. It felt like a feature film to me. If you just turned on the TV you wouldn’t have been able to tell which of the DC shows you were watching and that felt like a true crossover, rather than seeing Kara on The Flash or Sara on Arrow. I enjoyed the interactions of Mick and Caitlin, it was not what I was expecting from the two of them and I was surprised. Sara and Alex’s interactions were everything I had hoped for and more. The flirtation and badass-ery that came from the two of them was awesome and I would love to see them interact again at some point in the future, maybe in next years  crossover. I missed Wally and wish he could have been more involved in the story but I understand why he wasn’t. I loved seeing Snart with The Ray, that was a beautiful surprise that I wasn’t expecting and absolutely loved.

Barry and Iris have always been it for each other, and in this episode, the two went from full-blown wedding to exchanging “I dos” in a park, with just Oliver, Felicity and Diggle. What do you think of the journey that took them here? Did you enjoy the wedding or would you have liked to see something different? What do you hope to see from then going forward? And – was that their daughter from the future?

Alyssa: I’ve loved everything about Westallen’s journey over these past four seasons. It hasn’t been perfect, but their intentions were always pure and always leading to this moment. No matter what the status of their relationship, the one thing that has never changed has been their love for one another. It’s a love that has inspired others, as well.

Obviously I would’ve preferred to have gotten Barry and Iris’ wedding ceremony in full, but love was at the center of this crossover event and it was all about our heroes running home to their loved ones. There have been a lot of people bothered by the double wedding, but I actually really loved it. It wasn’t about being flashy with the ceremony, they already did that part. This was just about two people declaring their love for each other by exchanging “I dos.” That was the most important thing to Barry and Iris. I also loved that their love — throughout the crossover — also inspired Oliver and Felicity to get married, as well. But I would like some kind of reception or even an eventual renewal of vows to satiate my shipper heart.

Moving forward I wantto continue to see them working as a team, both professionally and in their personal life. I don’t want perfect, I want challenges. I want to see Barry and Iris — who are now the ultimate team as husband and wife — tackle life head-on. Together. Just because they’re married doesn’t mean I don’t want conflict. That’s how couples grow, even in marriage; especially in marriage. How you handle obstacles and how you work together will determine the sustainability of your marriage. And I think they’ve got it for the long haul.

Oh that was definitely their daughter from the future. (*Waves* Hi, Dawn!)

Lizzie: I have, at times, wanted to shake Barry Allen and I have always loved Iris more than him, but this episode, and the vows, made me remember what it is I love about Barry Allen, and why, when this show started, he was my favorite character. He’s done a ton of stupid shit in between then and this moment, but he’s always loved Iris, he’s always thought of her as his equal, and she has likewise, always loved Barry, always respected him, always thought the world of him. I think they’re clearly each other’s home, and this is just them making official what we’ve know for like, ages. They belong together. Life is better, happier, more fulfilling, this way. And I hope that’s what we get in the future, the two of them facing whatever life throws at them, together.

Did I enjoy the wedding? I’m glad they got married – I don’t know that I would have chosen a double wedding, in fact, I don’t think anyone over the age of 12 thinks a double wedding is a good idea. Every couple deserves their moment. And I, honestly, feel very sad that, if even if they already had the ceremony, in their minds, and this is just making it official, Barry didn’t go get Joe. My father is not around to see me get married, and Barry’s real parents aren’t, either, but Joe is, and Joe has been a father figure to him, and he’s Iris’ dad and the fact that they got married without him when he could have easily been there just doesn’t sit well with me.

As for the waitress, oh yeah. Daughter from the future indeed. Did anyone think she wasn’t?

Lyra: I didn’t enjoy Nazis busting into their wedding but I did enjoy the simplicity of their wedding where they were married by a friend with their friends beside them. Westallen has never needed anything fancy or over the top. What defines them as a couple are the small intimate moments where we realize how much they’ve grown as people and partners, at each others side.

From here on out I’m hoping to see that partnership bloom into something richer and more connected. Barry can’t go off and do what he wants, when he wants. He’s got a partner now and that will make things easier and harder at the same time. But honestly, I think they’re ready for this new phase of their journey. They’ll be ok.

Charles: I liked both of their wedding ceremonies especially the big one with Kara singing their song “Running Home to You” – That was a beautiful moment.

I wasn’t the biggest WestAllen fan when Flash first started but I’ve grown to love the ship over time. It just works really well and has been the best part of the show for a while now. Heck it was the best part of season 3 by far!

As for he woman, yep that’s their daughter. She looked a lot like Iris and had Barry’s goofiness as well.

Sarah: As much as I loved Kara singing their song at their church wedding, their wedding in the park felt so much more intimate and well “Westallen” to me. Barry, as much as I’ve wanted to smack him upside the head more times than I can count, has come a long way. Iris has gone through her own hell and back so to speak, and despite everything they always fought their way back to each other. I’m excited to see what new challenges, and joys they encounter and find respectively in the future as a married couple.

Unequivocally yes that was their daughter, and I’m hoping we get to see her again.

Lariel: I did enjoy the wedding in the park. It was a lovely way to end the crossover and made me feel a bit lighter after the loss of Stein. And yes, that was ABSOLUTELY their daughter.

Kayla: I thought it was a nice way to end the crossover. Especially with how dark it got in parts. It left you happy. Seeing them get their endgame is wonderful. They’ve fought for each other through other love interests to almost dying so many times you can’t count, this couple deserves their endgame.

And yes, it was a nice touch after Stein dying…which left me a blubbering mess.

Jade: Look, I adore Westallen. So of course I’m glad that they’re married. That said, I understand the complaints from the Westallen fans who feel that it wasn’t handled as well as it should have been. Iris and Barry’s wedding – which they’ve been planning for a year – was interrupted by Nazis. They got little time to even talk about it, because the romantic focus of the crossover was immediately turned to Oliver and Felicity. And I knew that Oliver and Felicity were going to get married in the end, too, so that wasn’t entirely unexpected. However, it was glaring that every time Barry or Iris so much as started to talk about what had just happened at their wedding, the focus immediately shifted to Felicity telling Oliver she didn’t want to marry him. (Which I have definite feelings about, that I’ll get into below.)

I was expecting a double wedding, so the concept going in didn’t bother me. It did bother me how it was done. I wish that they’d have had Felicity change her mind and decide to marry Oliverbefore Iris and Barry began to exchange vows. Or after they were done. Giving both couples their own moment, or letting them both equally share the moment. Not interrupting Westallen’s moment to shift focus once again. The way it was actually done made me cringe a little.

With all the Nazis, I found it hard to muster all that much anger at the wedding and how it was handled, to be honest. Because – even if it had been handled perfectly – would I really want to rewatch an episode or series of episodes over and over to relive the wedding? Probably not. But knowing that Oliver and Felicity probably also get an actual wedding of their own in a future episode of Arrow…no. I don’t think Westallen’s wedding was handled well at all, in that event. If they knew Olicity were going to get a wedding on their own show a week later anyway, then they absolutely should have given Westallen a moment, uninterrupted, to actually focus on the wedding they’d planned for a year. They could have still married Oliver and Felicity in the crossover. Just waited until after Barry and Iris were married and kissed, and then had one of them (Felicity, most likely) speak up at that point.

And that’s beyond the issue that – as nice as it was to have both Oliver and Felicity at their wedding – I do feel they did a disservice in not having at the very least Joe there, as well. (Wally should have been there, too.) Perhaps I’m biased (I’m definitely biased) because my own father is dead and so I would have given absolutely anything to have him at my wedding. But the fact that Iris got married to Barry and Joe could and should have been there but wasn’t…it makes my heart hurt. I think they really dropped the ball on that one. If Barry could grab Diggle, he could grab Joe.

Unfortunately, I don’t have any reason to think at this moment that there will be a redo wedding for Westallen as there will undoubtedly be fore Olicity, to give them the moment and the focus they should have had at their own wedding. I know there’s a fandom theory that the caterer (who is definitely their daughter) foreshadowed that they will. But I’m all out of faith on this one.

I don’t begrudge Olicity getting married. I don’t even particularly begrudge them being given a second, separate wedding. But if the writers knew that they were going to do that, they should have taken care to also give Westallen a wedding that the characters and their story deserved.

Katherine: I love Barry and Iris and I am so happy that they are finally married after everything that they have been through. That being said I much preferred the first attempt at their wedding, and like Charles said, I loved Kara singing “Running Home to You”, I loved seeing all the guests, I would’ve loved seeing a reception party. I think my biggest problem with their actual wedding was that Joe was not there. If anyone in the world should have been at the wedding of Barry Allen and Iris West it’s Joe West. He is Iris’s father, and essentially Barry’s as well. It made me pretty upset that he wasn’t there. I also wish that Felicity would’ve let them finish (not that I’m upset they’re married but you could’ve waited hun…) because they deserved their moment. As for the mysterious waitress, she was 100% their daughter from the future.

Oliver and Felicity have come a long way – and had to grow up together and overcome their many issues to get to the “I dos.” What do you think about their journey getting here? Did Felicity’s hesitation ring true? Do you feel like they shouldn’t have interrupted Barry and Iris’ moment, or are you happy with their wedding? What do you want to see from them going forward?

Alyssa: It’s been one hell of a six-year journey for Olicity as a couple and as a fan of Olicity. While there was the atrocity that was season 5, for the most part their journey has been handled beautifully. Olicity was the direct result of these writers trusting in the characters and the chemistry between Stephen Amell and Emily Bett Rickards. They didn’t force what they had intended. They changed the story so that it made sense as the characters were changing. I thought that was beautiful. It was nice to see them grow from strangers to colleagues to friends to partners to love of each other’s life.

Felicity’s hesitation to get married was definitely understandable. We’ve also seen it in a prior episode where she asked Oliver if they could kind of take things slow. This concern of finding happiness again and the fear of losing Oliver all over again was definitely something that’s been a concern of hers for some time. So while I asked, “What?” when Felicity said no to Oliver’s initial proposal, I trusted her. She must’ve had a good reason. And we discovered that reason stemmed in fear of the past, in fear of history repeating itself, I understood entirely.

I understand that people are upset with Felicity interrupting Barry and Iris’ moment, but I looked at the crossover event as a whole and it put me at ease. Throughout this entire thing, Barry and Iris have been cheerleaders of Oliver and Felicity’s love, of them getting married, and them getting to have all of the happiness that Barry and Iris have. Not to mention Barry and Iris weren’t bothered by it. At all. They were beyond happy for their friends. I’m sure they were honored to share that moment with them, and vice versa. And, hey, Felicity did wait until after the vows to interject. I feel like there’s been too much focus and anger on Felicity interrupting their wedding when there was a bigger issue to be offended at like, say, NAZIS.

As for moving forward, pretty much the same thing I want to see with Westallen, in general terms. So I’m basically going to copy and paste here: I want to see them working as a team, both professionally and in their personal life. I don’t want perfect, I want challenges. I want to see Oliver and Felicity — who are now the ultimate team as husband and wife — tackle life head-on. Together. Just because they’re married doesn’t mean I don’t want conflict. That’s how couples grow, even in marriage; especially in marriage. How you handle obstacles and how you work together will determine the sustainability of your marriage. And I think they’ve got it for the long haul.

Lizzie: It’s been a hell of a journey, as Alyssa said, one riddled with bad writing, drama for the sake of drama and a healthy amount of just making us wait for no reason other than they didn’t want it to happen so soon. So, yes, I have enjoyed the journey at times, and I have wanted to strangle the writers at others, but I do think this is where Oliver and Felicity belong – together. That being said, even this part of the journey had some parts that left me scratching my head. Her hesitation didn’t ring true to me at all, especially considering we hadn’t heard a pip about this in previous episode. Lay the groundwork, writers! Lay the groundwork! And it was all so …well, obvious, how it was going to play it, she was almost going to lose Oliver and she was going to change her mind. Except she’s come close to losing Oliver 8454654 times. Why was this time different? Was it the Nazis? Then why didn’t you just come out and SAY IT?

As for the actual wedding, I understand that Felicity’s realization made her just want to get it over it, marry Oliver right then, but I would have liked if both couples got their moment in the sun, so to speak. And I really, REALLY hope that this is the end of drama for the sake of drama, and that we’re now in for an Olicity that faces life together. Listen to me, Arrow. No more drama. PLEASE.

Lyra: Felicity’s hesitation to get married came from a place of desperately wanting things to change but remembering what happened in the past when she actually risked it all and took a chance. It’s fear that rings true and is part of all of us. I don’t love the way they expanded on this fear and made her realize that she only had the now with her partner, but I can’t change the stupidness of the Nazi plot. I can only say that I’m glad Felicity and Oliver are taking this next step in their life. Like Iris and Barry, they’re ready for this next phase of their relationship.

And should they have interrupted Iris and Barry’s wedding? Maybe. But Iris and Barry are chill people who would be more than happy to have their friends married with them. They’re not bothered so neither should I.

Charles: Felicity’s hesitant reactions did ring true even if they did ruin Barry and Iris’ dinner party. ( You just don’t do that in public, I’m sorry) As for the interruption of the second wedding by Felicity, I’m actually not mad at that. The main thing was Barry and Iris’ weren’t either and that’s the most important thing.

Wha I want to see coming forward for Olicity is the same I want for Westallen – just show them being a married couple in a superhero world. All the ups and downs that go with marriage. Make it as real as you can for this world.

Sarah: I’ve shipped Oliver and Felicity since the moment he walked into her office in season one. As frustrated as I’ve been with their journey over the years, which as Lizzie said is mainly a result of bad writing and bad choices in writing I really wouldn’t trade it for the world. After everything they’ve been through, I couldn’t blame Felicity for hesitating. The last time she agreed to marry him, it ended in a painful split over a secret he made the idiotic decision to hide from her.

I can understand WestAllen fans being upset, but personally I wasn’t. I loved Felicity asking Oliver to marry her right then and there. They were among friends, and committed to each other without the hesitation that Felicity was experiencing earlier in the crossover. I’m also betting they’ll get a formal celebration when they get home and tell everyone else they are married! Hey at least it wasn’t in a Vegas chapel, haha.

Going forward I’m really excited to see how life as a married couple will be for them for the same reasons I said above for Barry and Iris. Bring on the domestic!

Lariel: Felicity’s hesitation did ring true to me. They’ve been through so much. Now I’m only worried about two things: They didn’t have a marriage license… and can going to another dimension be considered bail jumping?

Kayla: Felicity had the right to be scared. The last time she almost married Oliver, she got paralyzed. She was afraid to commit to that because every time she has, something comes up.

She began to realize though that she did want the commitment of marriage and that set it in motion.

I doubt Olicity’s is legal yet…but I’m sure they fix that soon.

Also, Barry and Iris have been Olicity shippers since day one. They were happy for their friends. If WestAllen’s ok with it, I am.

I don’t know how married life will work for Olicity, but I’m excited to see her be a step mom to William.

Jade: Felicity’s fear makes sense on a level that a person might reasonably feel scared to move forward after all she and Oliver had been through. It didn’t make sense to me in that I don’t think it’s something that they really alluded to before this crossover. So it seemed somewhat like the breakup between Iris and Barry last season before their second engagement – it’s not totally out of the realm of possibility for a person to feel or react that way, but the fact that it became an issue just in time for everyone to have a Life Lesson in the span of one episode (or one crossover) and then resolve it makes it seem a little more like they contrived drama in order to resolve it with a big moment. I didn’t like it when they did that with the Westallen proposal last season. I don’t like it now. I just don’t like it when shows do that kind of thing, particularly since they could have had Felicity express (even if just to Curtis or Diggle) in a previous Arrow episode her fears about the future.

Am I happy with how the double wedding went down? Nope. I’m not. I can think of several ways the double wedding could have happened – just off the top of my head – that would have been respectful to both Olicity and Westallen. The way they handled it wasn’t one of them. As for where they go in the future…this wedding probably wasn’t legal so they’ll probably have another wedding to make it so. Which is just one more reason why the writers should have taken one more pass at the script to rework the double wedding a little.

Katherine: I agree with Lizzie on this one. I am happy that Olicity is married, but I wasn’t buying the out of nowhere hesitation from Felicity. I have shipped these two since season one and I have loved seeing them evolve in their relationship.

I wasn’t happy about Felicity interrupting the WestAllen wedding, and I think that I will enjoy their celebration on the next episode of Arrow a lot more.

 WestAllen and Olicity are married! Use a gif to express how you felt at seeing these two couples finally say “I do.”

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Sarah:

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Jade:

Katherine:

We said goodbye to Martin Stein in this episode. How did you feel about saying goodbye to Victor Garber? Do you feel like his death was well handled? Did you enjoy his character arc, and his relationship with Jax? How does this change the Legends going forward?

Alyssa: Honestly, that final scene between Stein and Jax was single handedly the most emotional moment in the entirety of DCTV. While I knew Victor was on his way out, I didn’t actually think they’d kill him. In a crossover event centered around Nazis, no doubt.

But given Stein’s death, I didn’t think overall it was handled well — a Jewish character killed by Nazis. Not to mention, why couldn’t Stein have just gotten to retire and spend the rest of his life with his family?! But the way he went out — sacrificing himself to get everyone else home to their loved ones was actually really beautiful and brave. Stein died a hero. But not as Firestorm. He died as Martin Stein, courageous man. Another beautiful point to drive home about heroes not being defined by masks.

That death scene was handled perfectly. Yes, it hurt. It hurt so fucking bad. I sobbed for like 10 minutes straight. It was, as I said, the most emotional I’ve gotten watching any of these shows. Victor Garber and Franz Drameh were simply fantastic in that scene. The set-up — the focus on how they’ve become each other’s family — was truly beautiful. Stein, once again, sacrificing himself to ensure Jax — his son — would be able to live a happy, full life choked me up. The emotion in that scene was palpable. You didn’t just watch that moment, you experienced it. And that’s a testament to Garber and Drameh, as well as how their relationship has been written and their love for one another. I was emotionally compromised by that scene. I hated it. I loved it. And that’s what it’s supposed to feel like.

Lizzie: I still want to cry, just thinking about it. This ranks right up there as one of the most emotional moments DCTV has ever done. And that’s mostly because Victor Garber is a hell of an actor, but also because Drameh delivered a hell of a performance too, and his desperation broke my heart, because we felt as he felt. Like this wasn’t the time. Like there was so much more for Stein to do. Like it was too sudden, too unfair. I relate to this, and it broke my heart, and thinking about it breaks my heart again.

Was it handled well? No. I don’t think he had to die to leave the show, can’t people retire and be happy, for crying out loud? The death served no real purpose, not yet, at least, and it’s disrespectful when we think that they had one of their jewish characters killed at the hands of nazis. Really, the CW? Really?

Lyra: I refuse to rewatch or even think about Martin Stein not being on this show anymore. That little bit where he told Jax that he didn’t want to go reminded me of the Tenth Doctor and the feels exploded out of me like confetti. Nope. Not accepting it.

Charles: I cried like a little baby. Most emotional scene of the crossover and all the credit to Victor and Franz for nailing that scene. I get emotional thinking about that scene right now to be honest.

Sarah: I’ve known for a while that Victor Garner and therefore Martin Stein would be leaving, but that didn’t keep me from bawling my eyes out at his and Jax’s last moments. I honestly wish though he could have left without dying. I understand the need for a dramatic put your fans through the wringer scene, but that was a disservice to Martin Stein.

That being said Victor Garner, and Franz Drameh absolutely killed it and therefore wrecked me. I say that not having watched Legends regularly for a bit and I found myself feeling every single emotion poured out in their goodbye. As much as I didn’t want to say it, Stein putting Jax above himself felt perfectly in character and it just tore my heart out that much more.

RIP Martin Stein, you will be missed by your Legends.

Lariel: Ever since Victor’s husband let slip the news about the Broadway role, we’ve known Stein was leaving. And we’ve known practically since the announcement of the crossover that someone connected to Legends was going to die. They made it pretty obvious in most of the writing for this season that Martin as going to be the one lost, but I was hoping against hope that they wouldn’t go for the obvious. At one point I wondered whether Ray would be the one to die – in some ways it would be fitting since Snart died in his place back in S1 of Legends. At another point, I thought Lily might be the one lost. I just didn’t want it to be Stein. I wanted him to go home to Clarissa, to help raise his grandson Ronnie, to be an advisor to the hero teams. But as broken as I feel about that, it was done beautifully. I will truly miss the Jax/Stein relationship, which meant more to me than FIrestorm ever did. They were so wonderful together. As to the Legends moving forward: I hope it means they become more cohesive as a team, bound by their losses.

Kayla: I don’t watch Legends, but I knew Stein and Jax from The Flash. I loved him there. The relationship between Stein and Jax has to be close. And seeing it handled in such a touching way made me blubber more.

Would I have liked to let Stein retire and go home to go his family, of course. We all want the happy peaceful end to our lives with loved ones.

I knew of this death months ago when they announced Victor’s departure, but it never prepared me to blubber so much over a character I had minimal attachment to.

Jade: Man, I knew Stein was going to die. But watching the episodes, I couldn’t stop thinking about how unnecessary it was to kill him off. They could have just had him leave and retire – which he had been building to doing. And having a Jewish character killed by a bunch of Nazis just really drove home the issues with this crossover. As always, Victor Garber did a phenomenal job, and of course his death was very emotional. I knew I would miss him any way that they did it. I just really, really wish they’d written him off in a different way. Characters in these shows rarely get to live and choose to leave to have their own happily ever after. He could have had his.

Katherine: I cried a lot at Stein’s death, I knew it was coming and was still not prepared for it to happen. His relationship with Jax has been one of my favorite relationships on Legends of Tomorrow and I think his death will leave a huge hole in the team. I am heartbroken for Jax and seeing him without Stein is going to be really rough. The final scene with Jax and Stein was too much for me to handle, and then Jax going to Clarissa and Lily just ended me. I can’t even imagine what the show will look like going forward, and what the new dynamics will be.

As for whether or not the death was well handled, I am going to go with a resounding NO. Having a Jewish character killed by a Nazi is so wrong,just so so wrong.

Let’s talk Alex and Sara. Did you enjoy their interactions? Did Alex having a one-night stand with Sara ring true to her character and what she was going through? Do you want to see more of them together in the future – as friends or something more? Finally, what did you think of Kara’s advice to Alex and how that advice mirrored Sara’s? Is Alex doing the right thing by moving on?

Alyssa: I actually really loved Alex and Sara’s interactions. The one-night stand with Sara I think rang true to her character because it showed just how much Alex is hurting — still hurting — after her breakup with Maggie. She was trying to just let loose and move on, even if she didn’t think that was where her interaction with Sara was headed. She had every right.

Sara and Alex were never going to be a sustainable ship with the logistics of the two different shows they occupy. But that doesn’t mean that a friendship can’t develop, and we get to see these two badass ladies lean on each other for support and catch up during these annual crossovers. I don’t care how I get it, but I just want more Sara and Alex interactions.

I loved how Sara and Alex’s dynamic wasn’t just about the one-night stand. They’re two people that have shared circumstances that they bonded over. The similar love and devotion for their sisters. Their shared fear. Their shared emotions regarding their exs and how to move on from that. I loved that Kara’s advice mirrored Sara’s. Both are telling Alex that she shouldn’t sacrifice herself — her beliefs, her desires — for someone that can’t respect that she wants those things. Alex is definitely doing the right thing by moving on. Moving on is the right thing to do. For whoever is doing it.

Lizzie: I really, really liked them together. I think their personalities were more compatible than I expected them to be, and considering how straight-laced Alex is, it didn’t seem completely OOC that she would have slept with Alex and then gone into an existential crisis about it. People deal with grief, with breakups, with separation, in different ways. She didn’t deal with it like Kara did with losing Mon-El, but that’s okay – the situations are different, and Alex and Kara are different. I hope we can see more of Sara and Alex in the future, not romantically, it seemed very clear from the beginning that this wasn’t a sustainable ship, but as friends. They’re more similar than I’d realized, before this crossover.

As for Alex moving on, yes. I think she’s doing the right thing for herself. And I think Kara’s advice, in this regard, is exactly what it needed to be. She isn’t – no one’s badmouthing Maggie or saying she was the worst, because she wasn’t. Kara is just pointing out that Alex needs to come first in Alex’s life, and that’s exactly the sisterly advice she needed to give.

Lyra: My boo Alex can do whatever the hell she wants with Sara or any other woman in the world/universe. Why? Because she is flying free and like Kara said, there’s nothing wrong with the choice that Alex made to not settle for having less with Maggie or sleeping with Sara. She deserves whatever the hell she wants and is allowed to live by these choices. Personally, I can’t wait for Alex and Sara to meet up again. The chemistry was too real to be a one time thing.

Charles: I liked it and it felt very real. From the one night stand to the growing of a friendship, it was well done. I love both characters and to see them get a spotlight, even briefly, felt nice. Hopefully Alex listens to Sara’s advice about moving on and Sara listens to Alex’s advice for looking for a special someone.

Sarah: Truthfully yes, and a lot more than I would have expected having never seen them interact before. Contrary to that terrible writing moment where Alex called herself a guy for having a one night stand (I mean really?), she had every right to let loose at that wedding. I doubt she expected a night of ahem excitement with Sara, but that doesn’t mean she did anything wrong. She was in the throes of I broke up with my girlfriend drowning my sorrows part of grieving, and her internal crisis led to some really good conversation later with Sara that I liked even more than the kissing.

As for Maggie, both Kara and Sara had the exact right idea in their advice about Alex’s choice. It’s always hard to give up the certainty for a possibility when it comes to romance even if you realize the certainty isn’t going to work down the road for either Alex or Maggie. So if the chance comes along again I would love to see these two ladies cross paths again, and get to know each other more…outside the bedroom ;)

Lariel: I liked them together, but never saw them as more than a one-night thing. What I actually didn’t like was that it was a hookup after pounding down the Scotch. I didn’t like that Alex felt so uncomfortable afterwards – it seemed like she hadn’t really known what she was doing the night before and that kind of encounter is not in character for either Alex or Sara. But I do think it’s good for Alex to move on.

Kayla: Loved Alex and Sara! It’s just what I never knew I needed. With Alex dealing with her break up with Maggie, and all the other things she’s battling back on Earth-38, she had the right to let loose and enjoy herself some. Kara was happy for her, and really that’s the support she needs is from her little sister.

I’d love to see them crossover Legends & Supergirl eventually. I think it would be epic. I definitely want to see these two  together again.

I think both Sara and Kara had excellent advice and, yes, it’s time for Alex to find herself again and move on. Besides, she’s got a lot on her plate when she gets home that doesn’t involve a relationship.

Jade: I enjoyed their interactions and liked that Alex had some of the best comedy of the crossover. I see Lariel’s point about the fact they perhaps shouldn’t have made it seem like such a drunken hookup. But I think Alex has been dealing with her own breakup, and so letting loose and putting that aside for a night makes sense for her. She got some excellent advice, and I want to see Alex be allowed to move on and find happiness again in the future – this time with a woman who wants the same things she wants. I want her to get her own happily ever after, but due to the nature of them being on different shows, Sara obviously isn’t going to be that woman. Still, I wouldn’t mind seeing them interact and watching them become good friends in future crossovers.

Katherine: I absolutely loved the two of them together, everything from the one night stand to what I feel like would be a genuine and fun friendship. One of the funniest scenes of the crossover was when Sara and Alex interacted outside the church before the WestAllen wedding. I think that Alex having a one night stand was good for her, being able to just have fun looked good on her. Plus Alex and Sara make a really hot and badass team, though they will never work in the long term it was a fun to watch. I enjoyed them being abe to talk to each other about their past relationships with Maggie and Nyssa, and bond over their love and devotion to their sisters. I hope that they interact with each other in future crossover events, as friends or friends with benefits.

Leo Snart and the Ray were a welcome surprise. Were you happy to see Wentworth Miller back, and playing the pansexual version of Leonard Snart he always wanted to play? Did you ship them? Do you kinda wish they’d stay and hang out with the Legends forever and ever?

Alyssa: Words cannot describe how thrilled I was with Wentworth Miller’s return. It’s one of those things that you know you miss it, but you don’t realize just how much you miss it until they return. While I am a Captain Canary shipper, I absolutely loved Leo and Ray’s relationship. We didn’t get nearly enough of it, but the bit that we did was rather satisfying in its portrayal. I’m beyond thrilled that Snart is going to stick around for a little bit, but I would’ve liked to see Ray stay with him. I love how we’re getting a same-sex relationship that has the potential to work out. And I love me some Wentworth Miller.

Lizzie: I loved it. I love Wentworth, and I adored Ray. I loved how they treated the relationship as such a matter of fact thing, and how, for the little we saw of it, you could tell it was a relationship based on mutual respect and trust. I wish they could both stay around forever and ever. I ship it, hard. I’ll take any little of them they give me, though. This is one of the few things I think the crossover did 100% right.

Lyra: Leo and Ray need to stay forever. Leo was a goober and Ray helped balanced out that gooberness. Let’s not forget that this was a love story between TWO MEN. TV has a tendency to go for the lesbian or bisexual stories because it’s easier to comprehend or write women falling for other women. News alert! Men fall in love with other men and we’d love to see their lives, loves, and laughs in the media we consume!

Charles: Loved ColdRay and how it was handled. Having two LGBTQ actors play two LGBTQ super heroes is big and much needed. I just hope we can get to see more of this in the future before Wentworth leaves.

As for Wentworth, he was a scene stealer in this crossover. Mixing humorous quips with his befuddlement at some of the heroes actions was a perfect blend.

Sarah: I was so freaking excited to see Wentworth Miller back as Leonard Snart. Part of me was secretly hoping for Captain Canary I will admit, but not going to lie ColdRay was everything I didn’t know I wanted to see onscreen. I completely agree with Charles on the sheer joy of two LGBTQ actors play characters in a same sex relationship. Wentworth stole my heart when he was onscreen so the fact he’s coming back for a few more Legends episodes is icing on the cake. I wish it was more than that, but I’m thankful for what we have and will get from these two awesome guys.

Lariel: Well, of course I was thrilled to see Wentworth back again. And I’m glad he’s got an episode or two of Legends still to come – it’s still not clear how many though we know he’s in 3×09. As to the rest, I left this note on his Instagram account on Wednesday: “Oh, my heart. Loved every scene between you and Russell last night. To me, that romance was better than the two marquee relationships for the crossover. It was tender, trusting and respectful, and there was so much love. I have been and still am a CaptainCanary shipper, but you two gentlemen gave me a new pairing to love. I’m just sad we aren’t going to get much of it, because it is so beautiful. Thank you.”

For once the Arrowverse gave us a a same-sex relationship that wasn’t unhealthy or doomed or merely background to the main ships. I wish they would give us more of it. I could go for ColdRay on the Waverider.

Kayla: I can’t really answer this question. I know who Snart is, I’ve seen him on The Flash.

But Snart and The Ray was a wonderful surprise and I really loved it.

Jade: I would absolutely love it if Snart could stick around and stay on Legends forever. I came to terms with his death in the first season, but I’ve missed him ever since. I admit that I came to love him much more on Legends than I ever did on The Flash. So I’d definitely love it if he’d stay forever. I’d love to see this new version of Snart explored. And I’ll miss him terribly once he leaves once more.

Katherine: I loved this ship! It was unexpected and amazing. Seeing them stick around on the Waverider with the legends forever would be great. I hope we see the live action version of The Ray again soon.

This was our first chance to see some of these awesome female characters interacting, fighting together, kicking ass – with or without powers. Talk about what it means to see the Arrowverse populated with these types of heroines. What could the shows be doing to give us even better representation?

Alyssa: Can we get more of this please? It shouldn’t have to take a crossover event to let all of our female characters get involved in the action, with or without a mask. I loved how we got to see Kara, Alex, Sara, Amaya, Zari, and Dinah kicking ass with their physical abilities, be it powers or not. But I especially loved how we got to see Felicity and Iris, who aren’t known for their physical prowess, get involved in the action both in a physical way and an intellect way.

The treatment of women in this universe has been and continues to be a concern. While it took a step forward in the crossover event by allowing everyone to get involved in the action, what’s to say that’s going to continue on their individual shows? There’s so much that this universe needs to continue to do to give better representation when it comes to women. Don’t silence them. Empower them.

Lizzie: It was in equal measures awesome and frustrating. If the shows are capable of doing THIS, why do we have to put up with what they do on the regular, which is females not getting along, barely acknowledging each other and female friendships being treated like something that never happens? I know Barry and Oliver are the titular heroes of The Flash and Arrow, but the female characters in both shows are arguably as important, and yet this was THE first time Iris and Felicity got continued screen-time together, and one of the few times they were allowed to save the day, and prove that you don’t need masks to be a hero. So, I just want this lesson to be more than a crossover thing, and I want it to include all women in DCTV, even the ones that weren’t in the crossover, like Thea and Lena.

Lyra: PRAISE BE, THE WOMEN OF DCTV KNOW ABOUT EACH OTHER AND ACTUALLY SPOKE TO EACH OTHER IN THIS CROSSOVER. Too often they circle around each other, sometimes being in the same room with each other, without saying a word to each other. I’m looking at you Caitlin and Iris. This crossover actually had them talking and it felt like a beautiful thing! Women can talk to each other about things other than the men in their lives and it’s important to remember that if they want to create a richer story that attracts and keeps female viewers.

Sarah: Honestly I loved every single minute of it, which makes me agree with Lizzie wholeheartedly on the frustration of why the writers feels the need to save it for, what just the crossovers? Female friendships whether it’s ladies night, or kicking villain ass (or both, both is good) is medicine for the soul and frankly interesting to watch on TV. There is no bad here, so why they refuse to acknowledge these ladies and their connections except when it’s needed for the plot is an ongoing sore point with these shows.

You can’t deny Iris, Felicity, Caitlin, Alex, Sara, and Kara when she’s facing her evil twin all have their own strengths, and can easily put them towards saving the day like everyone else. So come on writers, wake up and smell the potential for your shows, audience and especially your characters.

Lariel: How about continuing to do what they did in the crossover? Because that was perfect.

Kayla: I’m echoing Lariel. Seeing Felicity and Iris kick ass was awesome. They are often put in the background and not allowed to shine, but here they did. And what were they doing? Saving the Girl of Steel, a woman who is the most powerful being to walk the Arrowverse, and stripped of her powers has help from her two friends to prevent her death.

We’ve been shown Kara can handle herself, despite her loved ones trying to protect her (*cough Alex and Mon-El *cough).

Despite her being painted as a damsel in distress, I think for once Kara needed to be vulnerable because otherwise she could just fly out the window and escape herself. Seeing the other females help her though was awesome because this is about female empowerment. I’m glad it wasn’t someone like Barry or Oliver try to save her. That was refreshing.

So keep making these female characters empowered, and I’ll keep watching.

Jade: Having written – multiple times – about the issues in DCTV’s treatment of women, I was thrilled to see the women allowed to step up more and take the spotlight. All of them bring different things to the table and can be kick ass, and it’s great to see that recognized. I recognize that every crossover is going to have to find a way to depower Supergirl because she is the most powerful superhero on all four shows. If she can go out and punch one bad guy and end the threat, the writers have to find a way to justify why she can’t or the crossover doesn’t last four hours. It’s just a simple reality. I do hope that in the future, they find better ways to depower her than having Oliver tell her to sit it out a bit or for her to be kidnapped. I also know that Caitlin fans were disappointed that they were promised some awesome Killer Frost action, and she was knocked out and locked in a box for a good hour of the crossover.

So I doubt any crossover will ever be uniformly considered perfect in its treatment of female characters. In terms of action, I think this one did a lot better than they did last year. They just need to just keep remembering the amazing women they have to work with and continue focusing on letting them have their moments to shine, as well, in the future.

Katherine: Given the number of awesome female characters throughout all four of these shows I am annoyed that it took this long for them to come together. One of my favorite parts of this season of Legends of Tomorrow is the interactions between Sara, Amaya, and Zari. Seeing that multiplied by including the female characters from Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl was very satisfying. I need to see more of this because the Arrowverse does not really have the best track record in the treatment of their women, and doing things like this is a step in the right direction.

Finally, what do we say to Nazis?

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra:

Charles:

Sarah:

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Lariel:

Jade:

Katherine:

Alyssa Barbieri

Senior Managing Editor

Teacher by day, writer by every other free moment. Obsessed with sports, TV, books, movies, and superheroes. Proud shipper and supporter of strong female characters. TV Editor and Sports Editor. I write about DCTV, This Is Us and so much more.
Contact: alyssa@fangirlish.com.

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