‘Supergirl’ 2×22 Roundtable: ‘Nevertheless She Persisted’

Well, we’re all dead. And Supergirl killed us with a sensational season finale wrought with raw emotion and beautiful storytelling. How are we expected to survive these next five months?!

Our Fangirlish writers Alyssa, Lizzie, Lyra, Nora, Sarah, and Erin are breaking down the season 2 finale of Supergirl, which has us still reeling from the emotional roller coaster the show put us through with Karamel’s goodbye, Kara’s heroic sacrifice, a Sanvers proposal, and the arrival of a new foe.

Let’s discuss for the final time this season:

Describe your thoughts about “Nevertheless She Persisted” using just six words.

Alyssa: The story of how I died.

Lizzie: An avalanche of FEELS just hit.

Lyra: I didn’t ask for this pain!

Nora: Cause of death: Supergirl season two.

Sarah: I have died a fangirl death.




Erin: I’m not here. Supergirl killed me.

Describe your feelings about “Nevertheless She Persisted” using a gif.

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra: 

Nora: 

Sarah:

Erin:

The Vampire Diaries Elena Gilbert Quote GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Kara made the ultimate sacrifice in order to save her city and her planet. What are your thoughts on Kara’s strength to sacrifice her happiness?

Alyssa: Being a hero isn’t this glamorized thing that we can sometimes make it out to be. Sure, being a superhero looks badass. It looks empowering. It looks inspiring. It looks cool as hell. And while, sure, it is all of those things, it’s so much more. You are defined as a hero by what you do. Heroes sacrifice — they sacrifice themselves, the ones they love, and the potential for bright futures. Things that I cannot even imagine sacrificing. Kara made the ultimate sacrifice when it came to saving Earth. While Mon-El is the love of of her life, Kara also understood that one life wasn’t worth billions. In fact, even Mon-El understood that. He actually encouraged her to make the difficult decision. Kara made the right decision. But that doesn’t mean you can escape the pain.

Just thinking about what Kara sacrificed blows my mind. It’d be easy to say as a viewer that we could’ve been heroic enough to make the same sacrifice. But I don’t know if I could. Hell, even Superman wasn’t sure he could ever sacrifice Lois to save the world. It takes a special kind of hero, a special kind of bravery to give up so much.

Lizzie: I teared up at the goodbye scene, but I outright sobbed at the strength it took for Kara to make this choice – for Mon-El to make it easy for her. It was the right choice, yes, and heroes are supposed to make the right choices, but …I don’t know that I could, were I in her shoes. When Superman was talking about how he couldn’t have done it, I didn’t see that as a platitude, I saw that as what I think the show meant for it to be – a sign of respect. And I feel the same way he feels as he looks at Kara …I feel in awe of her fortitude. This is what being a hero is like – this is a decision Barry Allen would have never been able to make, or Oliver Queen, for that matter. This was the ultimate sacrifice, and it fell on Kara …and she did it. I still don’t know how, but she did it. She was the hero we needed, and honestly, she was actually better than we probably deserved. She was a hero. No, she was THE hero.

Lyra: Kara’s willingness to let a part of what made her so happy go, showed strength, growth, and an understanding that she did have something wonderful but the greater good was more important than that happiness she had with Mon-El. The greater good will always be more important, no matter who it is, and she learned that in this finale. Ideally I hope she, and the audience, also learned that letting someone into your life is possible and also extremely rewarding. Yes, Mon-El is gone. And yes, she’s in a lot of pain. But that pain doesn’t negate all the good things she experienced with him or the love they shared.

I do have to say that I have a problem with the wording of this question and want to clarify that Kara’s happiness doesn’t solely lie with Mon-El. Romantic love isn’t the end all and she’s not gonna pull a Bella in Season 3 because he’s gone. Kara didn’t sacrifice her happiness for the the city or the world. She sacrificed a part of her that made her happier in combination with her friends, family, and work life.

Nora: Kara made the best choice possible for this finale. I’m so happy that Supergirl allowed her to show strength by having her sacrifice herself for the greater good. Her growth has been building all season as we saw Kara start to ask for help and learn to work as a team. This episode showed that even sometimes, Kara needs to make the final decisions on her own and ultimately she’s willing to save everyone else before she puts her happiness first. I don’t think I could’ve ever done what Kara did. Sacrificing her own happy ending to ensure the happy ending of her friends, family and National City is truly one of the biggest “superhero” moments Kara has had on Supergirl so far. This sacrifice will most likely drive a lot of season three as Kara learns to live without Mon-El. If I know anything about Kara, she will turn this pain into a superpower to continue to save National City.

Sarah: Kara literally made the choice many of us really don’t know if we could do if we were in her shoes. This lady exemplifies the qualities of a hero, and it didn’t have anything to do with her abilities and everything to do with her inherent strength of character to let Mon-El the man she loves go to save the people of National City. I honestly am not sure if I could do it, but Kara is the character who demonstrates how high you can go without your feet ever leaving the ground. One point I want to make is that despite her pain, which I can imagine feels all consuming won’t last forever and it isn’t going to end because she moves on to a new guy or any of that tropey crap. It’ll be because she decides to keep living in spite of the pain and that happiness will come her way again because she won’t give up. Personally that’s who a hero is to me, someone who won’t give up and bless Kara for gracing our screens with the kind of person I feel the world needs right now.

Erin: Wow. Like really, WOW. I don’t know that I could have done it. I don’t know that I could be that selfless. Since Supergirl premiered I have seen Kara be selfless time after time, putting everyone else before her. No one has ever questioned it because that’s just what she is supposed to do. But as I watched him tell her that it was okay and she did it – my heart broke into a million pieces. I couldn’t feel myself breathe. I could feel her pain. As she told him that she loved him, I was thankful that she got to say it before it was too late. But when she took off flying at the end – I DIED. Kara, you are a hero in more ways than one – giving away your heart that way – allowing it to break, that my friend, is wow. You deserve a break.

Mon-El has come a long way this season. He’s someone who’s learned that being a hero is about being selfless, but also that it’s not something that comes easy to anyone. What are your thoughts on Mon-El’s instinct to put National City above his own safety and happiness?

Alyssa: This season has been so wonderful watching Mon-El grow into the hero that he is today. Looking back at where Mon-El started — a spoiled, rich prince from Daxam — and looking at where Mon-El ended up — a selfless, courageous hero of Earth — has been one of the most satisfying storylines this season. The thing that I’ve loved most about Mon-El is that he was flawed. He wasn’t presented as this picture perfect alien. He was shown in his weaknesses, his flaws, and we saw the very real fight as he tried to do so much more with his life. Some people hate Mon-El because he wasn’t perfect, which just baffles me. Because every single person in this world has been there. But despite the fact that Mon-El used to be a terrible person — as he openly acknowledged, by the way, which isn’t easy — he actively made it a point to be so much better than he was.

The reason that Mon-El has come so far this season is because of a combination of two things: One, Kara has inspired him to be a better version of himself. Two, Mon-El wanted to be a better version of himself. Kara showed him what it takes to be a hero, the kind of person worthy of love, but he also wanted it, which makes all the difference because we saw him actively pursuing that all season long. So when it came time for Mon-El to sacrifice the way a hero should, that’s exactly what he did. He didn’t even have to think twice about telling Kara to use the device that would kill him. He didn’t hesitate when Kara turned to him when she had to use the device. He understood that this was so much more than just him or just Kara. This was about saving the innocents in the world that needed them. That needed heroes. And I’ve never been prouder (or emotional.)

Lizzie: I think this is clearly not the end of Mon-El’s journey, we got the first steps, we got him going from the frat boy type to the guy who basically said – if it comes down to the world vs me, you sacrifice me, and who said it not because he wanted to “impress” Kara or anyone else, he said it because, for the first time, he felt it. He believed in something – something bigger than himself, something bigger than his relationship with Kara. He was a hero, in that final moment, and though the decision wasn’t his, he could have been selfish, he could have made it about them – and he didn’t. He was strong because Kara needed him to be, and because, in that final moment, that’s what he choose to be. A hero. The hero Kara always knew he could be. The hero, that, deep down, he always wanted to be.

Now, that’s still not the end of the journey for him. He still has a long ways to go to be that person consistently, and I think most of that development is going to happen off-screen now. I get the sense next time we see him he’s going to be more the guy people wanted him to be from the beginning – and yet, to be honest, I’m glad we got this version. If he comes back as a perfectly realized hero, if he’d been that from the beginning, how could I have related to him?

Lyra: Mon-El’s instinct to put National City’s safety and happiness above his own shows me one thing. He’s a hero. Plain and simple. He’s not the same man he was before, not by a long shot, and he never will be again. During his time in National City he grew and changed into a man that not only Kara, their friends, and family could be proud of, but someone he could he proud of as well. He’s what great heroes are made of and I can’t wait to see what’s next in his journey, who he meets along the way, and what will bring him back to Kara.

Nora: Mon-El’s journey on Supergirl this season has been one of my favorite character arcs. Since landing on Earth at the beginning of the season, Mon-El had a lot to learn and he became the superhero he aspired to be. He came from a planet where their morals are wrong and what made Mon-El great is that he realized his planet’s ways were wrong and he wanted to learn and become a better man, not just for himself but for Kara. While living in National City, he was able to become a man he could be proud of. He became the superhero he always wanted to be and that was the greatest ending to his season two character arc. I can’t wait to see where his journey goes from there and I hope he can continue to be a superhero wherever he ends up. And hopefully, he’ll eventually find his way back to Kara at some point.

Sarah: Mon-El’s journey from when he crash landed onto Earth to steadfastly defending his home and willingly encouraging Kara to use the weapon that would make it impossible for him to stay but save everyone said it all for me. I know a lot have not been convinced, but if you’re paying attention to what’s the on the screen the fact remains he grew from a selfish man to a true blue hero. What he thought to be his last moment with Kara (since we all know it’s not actually the last time) he promised her he would do everything in his power to be the man she believed he could be. I know he’ll keep his promise, and honestly I couldn’t be more proud of how far he’s come. Make no mistake he’s worked hard and while falling in love with Kara played a huge part, same for her, it was only through discovering true friends and finding a real home did he show his true loyalty to giving all of it up to save it and everyone there.

Erin: I haven’t got a problem with Mon-El. Yes, he’s got some issues from his planet, but like the man has been trying since he set foot on planet Earth. He’s wanted nothing more than to be a better man than he was before. But I think that he loved Kara enough that he wasn’t going to let what would hurt her the most happen. He just didn’t realize that losing him would hurt her just as much. That man has evolved and I respect him. I love him. I miss him already.

What was your reaction to Kara and Mon-El’s goodbye?

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra: 

Nora: 

Sarah:

Erin:

https://giphy.com/gifs/ugly-cry-dTVx1h0Ra3hdK

Obviously our Karamel hearts are broken right now after that gut wrenching goodbye. What were your thoughts on that scene? And why do you believe that Karamel will be reunited again?

Alyssa: I’ve still only watched that scene once, which should tell you everything. I’m someone who watches things at least two sometimes three times for emphasis, but I could not watch this finale again. Not yet at least. And this tearjerking goodbye is one of the reasons why. It was so much more than a scene in a superhero television show. With what Melissa Benoist and Chris Wood brought to it, it gave it this element of reality that made it even more tragic. You could see Melissa and Chris get caught up in it, which made me get all the more caught up in the emotional wave. This was the both of them sacrificing their happiness in order to save the world. This was them saying goodbye to an epic love. This was them promising themselves to each other even as they bid farewell.

Yes, everything looks hopeless right now. But that’s why, without a doubt, I know Karamel will be reunited again. This show has given us every indication that this love story isn’t over — even with Mon-El’s departure. That was part of the cliffhanger, which means that it’s unresolved, which means that it will be resolved. Look at how many people have disappeared forever or are presumed dead whom we know will be back next season. It’s all part of the emotional implications that the event will have on our titular hero as we head into next season. Karamel isn’t a random love story that was meant to be a couple of episodes. It has always been so much more than that. This has been a relationship that represents everything Kara has wanted in life when she felt she couldn’t be more than just Supergirl. This is a relationship that showed Kara what it means to love, lose, sacrifice, live. It’s been everything. And despite the angst — oh, how I love angst — this true love story is far from over.

Lizzie: The scene broke my heart – it was so well acted, you could see the anguish in both of their faces. The decision was made, it was clear, there was no going back, so that final moment was about both of them just …expressing what they felt. For Kara to say to Mon-El, you’ve made me happy …you’ve given me the life I thought I could never have. And for Mon-El to say to Kara, you’ve made me want to be better. And I am going to be. Not for you, but because of you, which is not the same thing. This was about them and their love and what they brought out in each other and what they were losing, forever.

Even if it’s not forever. It’s not. And I’m 100% sure here, not because I work at the CW, but because I like to use this thing called common sense, which says that ending Mon-El’s story on a cliffhanger means he’ll be back, which says comic CANON, one of the favorite things of a lot of people online, clearly indicates he’ll be back and which just screams that killing a ship like Karamel – one with so many fans and so many detractors (which just adds to the buzz) makes no business sense. And TV is a business, first and foremost.

Lyra: The Karamel goodbye scene at the end of the finale felt like watching two actual people saying goodbye. By two actual people I mean two people in real life, right in front of you, not aliens, experiencing the realization that they are going to lose each other. It felt intimate, raw, and like I shouldn’t be watching because it’s a moment of pain that will not leave them any time soon. That being said, I do think Karamel will be reunited. The separation wasn’t as cut and dry as I expected and it felt like a test that they must endure and grow from before they are reunited.

Nora: That scene broke my heart in every possible way. I knew Karamel would most likely split by the end of the season, but man it was one of the toughest goodbyes on TV. I think what got me the most was you could tell that it wasn’t only Kara crying, but Melissa and that got to me. Tears were streaming down my face and I couldn’t stop it. Both of them made the ultimate sacrifices in this episode and the goodbye was heartbreaking. I love Mon-El and Kara together and while I’m upset they aren’t together, I know they’ll find their way back to each other eventually. Melissa and Chris made this Karamel goodbye one of the best scenes this season. Kara and Mon-El will each carry each other with them for the rest of their lives and I’m glad that was highlighted in this goodbye. When they eventually reunite, I can assure you that will be another sob worthy scene.

Sarah: It was a heart wrenching goodbye in every sense of the word. Tears were running down my face with both of them because as much as they knew this was the best choice to save everyone it didn’t take away from the sheer pain of letting someone you love go, potentially forever. I don’t for a second believe this was a permanent goodbye, but the fact that they did was wonderfully acted by Melissa and Chris. Mon-El made sure Kara knew she’d be with him wherever he went and promised to be the man he’d worked hard to become the one she believed in through all their ups and downs. Kara as sad as she was didn’t want him to leave without knowing how happy he made her, when she thought love wasn’t in the cards for her choosing to balance her life with being Supergirl. I don’t expect the pain will be easily forgotten, even if I have faith in both of them handling it to keep going. I’m also positive they will be reunited in the third season even if I can’t begin to guess how. When that moment comes though, you better believe I’ll be screaming like the happy fangirl I am.

Erin: I can’t even talk about it. Every time I do tears rise in my eyes. Yes, I know it’s a TV show, but the thing is – I love these two together. I love their evolution. I love that they have both journeyed together and grown. I don’t even think that this is forever gone – it can’t be. I think that her friends are going to find a way to get him back because they know that Kara wants him and I think that part of her needs him like the air that we all breathe. I can’t accept that this is the end. But I think that he’s gonna appear when she needs him the most and the moment that happens I will jump up and down and rejoice.

What was your reaction to having Tyler Hoechlin back as Superman?

Alyssa:

Lizzie:

Lyra: 

See Also

Nora: 

Sarah:

Erin:

Wwe Yes GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

This episode saw the return of Tyler Hoechlin as Superman…just when Kara needed him. Why do you think Superman’s appearances work so well on this show?

Alyssa: Superman works so well on Supergirl because he doesn’t overpower Kara or the fact that this is her story. That was one of the original concerns about making Superman a real character on the show. But if anything, this show has managed to make every single one of his appearances meaningful without taking anything away from Kara. Clark adds to her story. You can’t have a show about Supergirl without Superman. He’s a significant part of her life, so it would be an injustice to actually leave him out. Supergirl has done an amazing job balancing it so that Superman isn’t a regular character but one that shows up when the situation calls for it. It never feels overbearing.

I loved how Supergirl utilized Superman in this episode. Not only was he a physically imposing force, but he provided some real emotional support for Kara. He helped encourage and inspire her, as well as remind her of the strength that he sees in her that he doesn’t even see in himself.

Lizzie: Because he’s not there to preach or to teach lessons, he’s there to be an equal to Kara, and ally …family. He respects her and he supports her and he never tries to imply that he’s smarter or stronger or and other words ending in er. He’s, in a way, the flip side to Alex, in that he provides a family connection that is important, that grounds Kara, but he doesn’t overshadow her in any way, shape or form. And that’s a victory for not just the casting department, but the writers.

Lyra: Superman’s appearances on Supergirl work so well because it doesn’t feel like he’s butting in. He knows that this is Kara’s show, home, and battle. He believes in her and has her back no matter what. Also he doesn’t treat Kara like a child or any less for being young or a woman. She’s capable AF and he shows it in his words and actions. All of this combined makes me want to see more of him and more of these two super cousins kicking butt or possibly just chilling out together. They’re adorable and you’re lying if you say they aren’t!

Nora: I’m forever grateful that they waited to introduce Superman until season of Supergirl. It allowed the show to establish Kara as her own superhero before bringing in her famous cousin. Superman works so well on the show because he never steals Kara’s spotlight. They work together and he fully realizes she’s able to save National City on her own, but even superheroes need help sometimes. Superman never takes away from Kara’s storylines, he only enhances her storylines. Everything combines to create the perfect family dynamic between Superman and Supergirl. I’m so happy he showed back up in the finale and it was the perfect full-circle moment for Supergirl season two.

Sarah: They work because for one casting was done perfectly and second he doesn’t appear so often to overtake Kara and Supergirl, rather the story is uplifted when he’s there. It’s a hard balance to find when Superman is deeply iconic within this world, but the writer’s hard work is apparent in sprinkling him in just a few times where it means a lot anytime he’s there but the show isn’t missing anything when he isn’t. What makes it work more than anything is the clear family vibes you get between the cousins and how much they respect each other. At the end of the day, they know push come to shove they’ll be there for each other if they need it and it takes away nothing from Kara but makes her story all the more meaningful.

Erin: Because he doesn’t take away from Kara, he enhances her story. He makes her a better person and he’s the only person that understands what she is going though. Like everyone else may try, but no one has really gone through what she has. BUT – I have to say that I am so tired of Superman being mind controlled. LIKE SERIOUSLY – let’s move past that. Let’s find something else to do with him.

That aside – I think that one of the best things about Superman is that he really has the same heart as Kara. I think that she finds a sense of home in him, which gets her through. I love that about him.

This is not a drill! Alex popped the question to Maggie! What were your thoughts on Alex’s proposal, and do you think Maggie said yes?

Alyssa: I certainly hope so! But after the news that Floriana Lima won’t be returning as a series regular, I do admit that I’m feeling nervous. While the proposal was a blink and you miss it moment, I do appreciate how it was very much in the moment for Alex. Alex had just seen her sister lose the man that she loves without warning and was reminded that life is precious. You have to live in the moment, live for today because tomorrow isn’t promised. But I actually liked that the show left it hanging. It provides more opportunity to explore that moment in it entirety and get an immediate payoff.

Lizzie: I think she said yes, and I think Sanvers is not breaking up and I think that, depending on Floriana’s availability, they’ll give us as much from the two of them as they possibly can. I think the proposal itself was a bit hasty, but I see where it’s coming from, not just from a place of fear, but from a place of certainty that this is the person you want by your side for the rest of your life, so why wait? That being said – I just …I hope we don’t end up with a broken heart because Floriana doesn’t want to be on the show anymore. I really, really don’t.

Lyra: *deep breath in* Sanvers. My beautiful Sanvers. Before Floriana’s announcement I would’ve said yes, she accepted the proposal and they’re going to take this slow and steady into happy Sanversville. After Floriana’s announcement I’m doubtful that Maggie will accept the proposal. And even if she does, I think the show will pull the following stunts because of Floriana not being a regular anymore: 1) Assigning Maggie to a super secret operation where she will be gone for a lot of time so she can’t say yes to the proposal. 2) Have her accept to only find out later that they were rash in their decision and that it’s not working out. 3) Maggie saying no because she doesn’t believe in marriage and it will slowly tear them up episode by episode. Whatever way this goes, I see heartbreak in the future for these two and it tears me apart and makes me fear to investing more into them.

Nora: Sanvers stole my heart this season in every single way. So, the engagement at the end just melted my heart and I couldn’t take it. Based on Maggie’s facial expression, I think she said yes to Alex’s proposal. These two have hit all the major milestones this season, so ending with this major one I don’t think was a way to break up Sanvers. I think Maggie said yes and they’re going to take things slow. I was certain next season would be filled with adorable Sanvers moments as they plan this adorable wedding, but then Floriana announced she will not be a series regular next season and I’m all kinds of confused. I don’t think they’ll break up Sanvers, but I think Maggie will be sent out of National City on an assignment or the engagement will end up pushing them apart. I love Sanvers and I wish them all the best, but I know it’s not going to be easy and I’m preparing for all kinds of tears.

Sarah: I was shocked honestly, and I felt like my shock mirrored Maggie’s in that moment from how unexpected it was but I do think she said yes. Alex and Maggie love each other and Sanvers has been one of the many shining lights of Supergirl’s second season. As impulsive as it was I do believe Alex didn’t propose out of fear, but out of every desire to cherish the woman she loves after she saw Kara lose Mon-El. I’m not sure how it’ll work given Floriana’s change from series regular to recurring, but I am hoping this doesn’t mean they’ll automatically break up Sanvers. I’m cautious, but hopeful and I’ll keep that close heading into the third season.

Erin: I do. I am confused how it will play out, with the news that Maggie won’t be a regular next season, but I am ecstatic to see what happens.

Per usual, this season of Supergirl ended with the introduction of a possible new threat or ally. Who do you think was the other Kryptonian sent to Earth all those years ago? And do you think they’re friend or foe?

Alyssa: I feel like the obvious answer is Reign, considering that the casting for the supervillain is already underway. Considering the cliffhanger we got with our apparent Big Bad — so I’m guessing it’ll be a foe for Kara — had someone flaunting the fact that this thing would rule all, it makes sense that Reign could be the one in the pod. In the comics, Reign was this perfect warrior created by the Kryptonians. So it would definitely be something that could prove to be interesting for Kara. Not to mention I love the fact that she’s a woman, because there aren’t enough female big bads out there.

Lizzie: I’m with Alyssa here – they made it very obvious with the last line that this is about Reign. And hey, considering what we know and what this show has given us it’s pretty obvious that this is no friend – at least not long-term. I still think Lilian and Lena will play a part in the long-game for next season, and maybe onwards, but this seems to be where the show is heading towards now. Reign it is.

Lyra: The creature sent to Earth will not be a Kryptonian. It will be Reign. And as for her being Kara’s friend…I think she’ll start off as one. Someone inconspicuous that comes into Kara’s life, integrates herself into her day, and shows her a different way of living and experiencing the world. Forming a bond between them before dropping the bomb that she’s evil will be an interesting test for Kara and how far she’s willing to go for this city. Also it’s a superhero trope that they’re definitely working on between Kara and Lena and maybe Supegirl is looking to test drive it first with someone else.

Or it could be Krypto. Where is that dog?!

Nora: I also agree that the obvious guess for the season three big bad will be Reign. I’m looking forward to how Supergirl brings this villain and if they’ll go the route Arrow went this season with Prometheus, where Reign’s presented as a friend and turns out to be a foe for Kara. I do think that Lillian and Lena will also continue to play a big role as Lillian leans into her villainous side, while Lena rides the middle of whether she sides with Kara or her Mom. I’m excited for whatever villain comes Team Supergirl’s way next season. Until then, I’m going to continue to mourn Karamel and hope for some happiness for Sanvers.

Sarah: I’m going to agree with my fellow writers and go with the fairly obvious guess of Reign. She could be a straight out foe, or a friend in disguise, either way I’m looking forward to seeing the kind of challenge she poses for Kara. If she’s her friend and turns against her, I’m kind of hoping that means they won’t go that route with her and Lena at the same time, or ever really. That being said I’m certain it’ll play out to honor the comic origins, but with the unique touch of the Supergirl writers.

Erin: I don’t have a clue. I can’t even guess. I am too busy wallowing in my Karamel self pity and broken heartedness right now.

Supergirl returns Mondays this fall on The CW.



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