Every week, Fangirlish writers will be discussing new episodes of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and speculation about the hour’s hot topics in a little something we like to call Fangirlish Roundtables.
Today, we’re breaking down episode three of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, “White Knights” where we discuss Sara and Kendra as the perfect pairing, Ray and Snart’s relationship, and the clash between Firestorm’s halves.
What were your overall thoughts on “White Knights?”
ALYSSA
Legends of Tomorrow continues to impress me following a somewhat so-so first couple of episodes. Now that we have more experience in this show’s dynamic – that consists of team-ups between characters – I finally feel more comfortable with this show and am completely loving it. This episode showcased a few pairings that I really liked – Sara and Kendra, as they both complemented each other with their own unique issues, and Ray and Snart, as they once again proved that opposites are really the most entertaining. I really appreciated how the team realized that every little thing they do in the timeline can possibly affect things drastically in the future, like including Vandal Savage learning about Firestorm and attempting to replicate it in 1980s Soviet Union. The show has also done a really nice job of balancing the humor and the seriousness of it all, which is something that this episode and next week’s episode should excel with.
LIZZIE
I think it’s a step in the right direction. Some things about the show are still messy, especially when it comes to the time-travel, and the stakes, but the characterization has been very strong in the last two episodes, and that’s what sets this show apart. And, of course, there’s the fact that, for the first time, people we care about are actually in danger in this episode. And normally, that’s bad, but in the case of Legends, it’s good. We needed it.
LYRA
I was mildly impressed by it. I would like to see more of the relationships between these people instead of time travel junk with Bore Savage (that’s his new name in my mind.) He is slowly and surely becoming the least favorite thing of the show. I did like that they explored Vandal’s plans without him being physically present. He’s got teams around the world who follow him because…(well I don’t know why.) Maybe that’s the problem right there. Why do people follow him? Give me more of that and maybe I can stand his face a little more.
Would you agree that Legends continues to show that its strength lies not with the time travel of it all but with the characters that populate this world?
ALYSSA
Oh most definitely. The reason why I’m invested in Legends of Tomorrow in the first place is because of these characters. And the more time I get to spend with them in this show the more I grow to love them. One of my favorite things about Legends is how it’s presented the opportunity to truly explore what are, let’s be honest, secondary characters from Arrow and The Flash. They never really got the proper attention, but this show provided the perfect opportunity to showcase their strengths – or, in Ray’s case, actually make me like him, which is something that never applied to him when he was on Arrow. The greatest thing about this show is its characters and the different dynamics that exist between all of them. We’ve gotten to see several different pairings, which is great because you get to see a couple of characters that you’d never expect to work well together just really work well together, like Sara & Snart and Ray & Snart.
LIZZIE
Yes, yes, yes. This episode they managed to make me like Jax for the first time, and they took some steps towards making me like Kendra, and those were the two weakest character in this team. I’ve always liked Sara, they made me like Rip last episode, Stein is starting to sound like the Stein we knew and loved, and Ray and Snart have been consistently good, as has Mick Rory. All in all, I’m invested with these people, even if I’m not invested in the end goal.
LYRA
Absolutely agree. I couldn’t care less about the time travel. I know it’s a core element of the show but I’m pretty blah about it. Now the relationships between all these unlikely characters is something I can totally back. You wouldn’t expect these people to ever hang out with each other. With every episode that passes you realize that they’re more similar than initially thought. They all have people they care for, fears that keep them up at night, and doubts about where they fall into this team dynamic. When they start working together you see them slowly blending their skills and worlds together.
We saw Rip Hunter choose to consult his team about an offer he received instead of electing to make the decision for them all. What do you think that says about Rip?
ALYSSA
Considering in the show’s pilot that Rip lied to everyone’s faces about being legends in the future for him only to say, haha sorry you’re all actually nobodies, our group of legends rightfully so have trust issues with Rip. So when Rip was once again approached with an opportunity to save his own ass and make the decision without his team he chose to communicate this information to the team that was still on the ship, and they decided together that they’d like to keep trying to save the world from Vandal Savage. I think that shows that Rip, who has blinded by vengeance for his dead wife and son, is finally starting to approach this situation from a place of intelligence and respect. This isn’t only about him anymore. Now this is about his team, as well as stopping Savage from destroying the world.
LIZZIE
It was a good call, one that shows that maybe, despite the fact that he’s not very good at communication or even at explaining what time travel is all about, Rip does have what it takes to be a leader. It’s not about doing the right thing because you know it’s the right thing, being a leader is about managing people. And when you have a group as diverse as this, that’s all the more important.
LYRA
I think Rip is starting to trust in his decision to bring these people on this mission. He’s also starting to depend on this group of people to have his back. Why? Because he’s all alone and he feels like he’s found similar ground with them. They know him. They know what he fears and the things he’s missing in life aka his family.
We saw Sara and Kendra paired up to help each other through their own personal issues. Do you think they’re the right fit to help each other?
ALYSSA
The beautiful thing about the pairing of Sara and Kendra is that they are so opposite that they are perfect for each other. In fact, that’s what Legends continues to prove is one of its greatest assets are these unique, surprising pairings that might not make sense at first but once these people have spent time with each other couldn’t feel more right. And Sara and Kendra are the latest to join that group. I loved how Rip saw it before Sara did – that Sara and Kendra both need each other’s help in rediscovering a part of themselves they fear is lost, Sara her humanity and Kendra her warrior spirit. Never mind that these are two incredibly badass, strong women that are helping each other work through their issues – something we don’t get nearly enough of on television – but the fact that they’re essentially missing pieces to each other’s puzzle is fascinating to me. Sara has that warrior spirit – perhaps a little too much – that Kendra desires, and Kendra has that humanity that Sara is so desperate to assure herself that she still has. This pairing couldn’t be more perfect for these personal issues, and I hope we continue to see the development throughout the first season.
LIZZIE
Yes, I do. Not only because, as Rip pointed out, what they each need is what the other has in spades, but because Sara is a likeable character despite having done plenty a thing we should dislike her for, and Kendra is not very likeable, despite having done nothing that should make us dislike her. Stick them together and maybe, just maybe, through their relationship, we can learn to like Kendra. And, if not, it was at least worth a shot. It’s not like we can care any less about Kendra at this point, after all.
LYRA
Honestly…I’m not sure. I didn’t see any spark between them. No flashing lights saying, “These two can help each other.” All I saw was two confused and alone women. If they can help each other get past some of their issues then go ahead. But I’m not sold on it. Maybe a little mission besides that failure that they had at the Pentagon? They both haven’t had enough screen time to help me have a solid understanding of what they’re going through personally.
Once again we were treated to the pairing of Ray and Snart as they were tasked with learning some very important information. What were your thoughts on that pairing and do you believe that they could eventually become friends?
ALYSSA
I have to admit Ray and Snart are the pairing that I’m most excited about on this show. I didn’t think I’d be as invested as I am at this point, but the personal nature of both of these characters and the chemistry that they seem to have is just so entertaining and heartwarming for me. They have a nice relationship where they essentially tease the hell out of each other, but I suspect that deep down that both of them would give quite a damn if something were to happen to the other. We saw as much from Snart when Rip forced him to leave Ray and Rory behind. When Snart was talking about leaving his men behind he wasn’t just referring to Rory – he was also referring to Ray. The thing for me is that I see such a similarity between the two characters. They both, while growing up with incredibly different backgrounds – have always been searching for their purpose in this world, and they’re also both people who defend their own at all costs. And I do actually believe that we’re headed in a friendship direction. It might not be the kind of friendship we’re expecting where it’s a declaration, but I can almost guarantee that we’ll see that care and bond there even more than it already is.
LIZZIE
This was, and has been, honestly, my favorite pairing of the show so far. Color me surprised. I mean, I liked Snart, but wasn’t a huge fan and I didn’t like Ray at all, when this show started. Now I’m actively looking for more interactions between them. Maybe because they play off each other like feuding brothers, and yet, despite that, or maybe because of it, they seem to bring out the best in each other. Ray wasn’t going to give up Snart, no matter what he said. And earlier, Snart listened to Ray, despite his better instincts. That’s just a taste of what this relationship has in store for us, and I, for one, couldn’t be happier for it. There’s a real potential for deep friendship there, and can you see two more unlikely people becoming friends? It’s glorious.
LYRA
I love the pairing of Ray and Snart. They feel like a pair of brothers who are two sides of the same coin. They both like to win and have an urge to show the other that they have control of the situation in front of them. Snart sees past Ray’s smart comments and really tests him as a part of this team. I think they can both learn a lot from each other. Ray can learn how to see people’s truest intentions. And Snart can learn how to give others a chance. I think they can eventually become friends. It’s just going to take a long timeeeeee.
Stein and Jax’s relationship hit a rough patch as their disagreement on how to handle situations caused some serious tension between the two. Stein believes Jax is too reckless at times. And Jax believes that Stein is too hard on him. Are both validated in their claims?
ALYSSA
When it comes to a partnership like Firestorm where two halves make a whole it’s no surprise that Stein and Jax are both opposites and yet that makes them compatible. Jax certainly has an argument where he’s standing as to how Stein repeatedly takes charge and makes the decisions when it’s Jax’s body on the line. So he should have some input in the entire situation. But the thing that struck me most of all was where Stein is coming from. He’s not coming from a place of control and power. He’s coming from a place of concern. We’ve seen what’s happened to Stein when he lost Ronnie, his first Firestorm companion. He couldn’t protect him from the death that awaited him with his sacrifice. So Stein has seemingly taken on a parent role with Jax, even though Jax might not like it. Jax is Stein’s responsibility – he’s the reason he is here (after he drugged him and brought him aboard the time ship – and Stein will make damn sure that Jax is protected even if it means him hating him for it. That’s what you do for people you care about. You put their best interests and well being above your own. And suddenly this relationship has become so much meaningful to me moving forward.
LIZZIE
Yes, and that’s what happens in real-life disagreements more often than not, both are justified, and each person has to learn to look at things from the other person’s perspective. That’s hard for both Jax and Stein, who didn’t really choose each other, but it’s the only way their relationship can work out. Stein has to give up his guilt over Ronnie and his overprotectiveness and Jax has to respect Stein’s opinion. This, of course, is easier said than done. It’s a process. It won’t just happen overnight. But, first, they have to accept that the other person might have a point – otherwise, they just won’t’ get there.
LYRA
Yes they’re both validated in their claims. They’re both hard on each other because they’re scared. Because of this fear they want to make sure they do everything a specific way in hopes of surviving. Problem is that they don’t consult each other and end up having this grand miscommunication where notions are made off interpreting actions on their own. Not working together makes them weaker as long as they think the other is wrong.
This episode marked the first real high-stakes mission for our team, which eventually ended with them separated. What would you like to see in the conclusion to this two-part episode event?
ALYSSA
This episode rose the stakes significantly for the first time, which is saying something about a show bound in time travel where every time they travel through times there’s something significant on the line. And the reason for that was that their own were taken hostage in an episode that didn’t end with their safe return. Though we know nothing will happen to them as permanent as, say, death, there was a real concern for me personally now that the team has been split and that Vandal Savage’s team is close to replicating Firestorm back in the 1980s. What I’d like to see in the conclusion of this two-part event is some more of those incredible pairings, but also a sense of determination to rescue their group, which might include seeing someone you never thought could care so much about someone they’ve now met and gotten to know (this is about Ray and Snart, but also about Ray and Sara because White Atom feels). This is the first time our team will be apart so I can’t wait to see them work together – being split as they are – to ultimately stop Savage’s plan and get the hell out of this situation.
LIZZIE
It goes without saying that I’d like the rest of the team to rescue Snart, Stein and Ray, right? I mean, of course I would. That’s three of my favorites right there! But mostly, I would like the rest of the team to use this as an opportunity to be just that, a team. The people left in the ship haven’t had to do much work together – Ray and Snart have worked together, or Snart and Rory – so it’ll probably be a struggle. But that’s fine, that’s what we want to see. We want to see them learn to be a team. And here’s their very first chance to prove they can be.
LYRA
I’d like to see them coming together to plan a way to get out everybody safely. They can’t survive without each other and the delusion that they can needs to be squashed before one of them bites the dust. They have much to learn from each other.
What are your thoughts on “White Knights?” Sound off in the comments to keep the discussion going!
Join us for another Legends of Tomorrow roundtable next Wednesday!
Legends of Tomorrow airs Thursdays at 8/7c on The CW.
