The Flash 3×04 Roundtable: 'The New Rogues'

A new season of The Flash means a new season of roundtables where Fangirlish writers Alyssa, Lizzie, and Lyra discuss the hot topics from every Flash episode.

In The Flash‘s fourth episode of season 3, two new Rogues arrived in Central City and wreaked some havoc. We also got a glimpse of Barry and Iris’s new relationship and how they’re going to have to overcome obstacles, as well as a glimpse at the beginning of Caitlin’s Killer Frost arc.

What were your overall thoughts on “The New Rogues?”

Alyssa: I thought it was one of the better episodes of The Flash this season only because it didn’t irritate me in the way others have. The elements that I truly enjoy, including WestAllen, Barry & Joe, Killer Frost, and Harrison Wells, were on full display in an episode that almost made me forget how mad I am at Barry. Until it was over, then the anger was back. My hope for The Flash this season is that it actually addresses Barry’s fuck-up in a way where he has to confront it and face very real consequences so that he’ll never do something like it again. I’m not convinced that he’s there right now. Now it’s up to the writers. Because I really want to love this show again. But for the first time in a while I actually enjoyed an hour of The Flash. It was a good feeling.
Lizzie: It was an okay episode – not memorable, not really something I need to rewatch – except for maybe the Harrison Wells parts, and the awesomeness that was Killer Frost, but okay nonetheless. It felt a bit like a filler episode, but not the worst one of them all.

Lyra: The New Rogues made me miss Snart with a fiery passion. (It also made me wonder how the Barry/Snart shippers are doing. Go forth and write guys! I support anyone’s right to ship.) Back to the topic on hand. This episode was about “out with the old, in with the new” and changing dynamics. Without a doubt, Flashpoint and it’s consequences will continue to be a problem throughout the season. Maybe Snart is alive? That’s a consequence I can get behind!

What do you think about Barry and Iris as they begin their foray into romance? What about the new dynamic between Barry, Iris and Joe?

Alyssa: I consider myself a big fan of WestAllen so naturally I’m nervous about how The Flash is going to handle their romantic story. When you care about something it’s very scary for it to be out of your hands. It’s what makes being a television fan a little nerve-wracking. You love the story, the characters, but sometimes you’re left wondering: what were the writers thinking?! I’m really hoping I don’t feel that way with WestAllen.
But I thought that Barry and Iris were adorable and sexy at the same time. There were moments where you saw the friendship aspect of their relationship – the cutesy moments – and then there were moments when you saw the romantic aspect – the sexy times on the couch. But perhaps most encouraging of all was the conflict thrown in there with Iris wanting Barry to be open and happy about their relationship; she wanted him to tell Joe and not be afraid to do so. The first real obstacle in their relationship, which they handled well. But I’m curious to see how The Flash handles true conflict with Barry and Iris. All superhero couples have to go through some really rough times so they can grow into each other. I’m patiently and anxiously waiting to see what that conflict is. But I’m loving what I’m seeing with WestAllen. As far as the awkwardness, it was definitely to be expected. While Joe might be supportive of Barry and Iris, that doesn’t mean it’s exactly easy to see them in intimate situations.
Lizzie: Let me start with the second part of this question – I think it’s awkward. But then again, this really wasn’t going to go any other way. Joe is Iris’s dad, but he’s also, in all the ways that count, Barry’s dad. And though Iris and Barry didn’t really grow up thinking of each other like brother and sister ….they still grew up with the same dad. Awkward was going to happen. Awkward was to be expected.
About Barry and Iris …I liked them way more in this episode than I liked them in the last one. There are some growing pains, of course, but there was a level of comfort to them in this episode that was missing before, maybe because they weren’t trying so hard to be other people, they were just Barry and Iris – even if Barry was awkward AF for most of the episode.
Lyra: This weeks Westallen was completely different from last week. They were more natural in The New Rogues. They knew each other and acted like it. No more trying to impress each other and be people they aren’t. I’m not invested in the couple like I was before, but I see them going through the usual motions of a relationship in a hero story. It was extra awkward that they were snuggling and kissing in front of Joe. No matter how much Joe assures them that it’s ok, they’re still his kids. It’s always going to awkward for him. Moving out and getting a place for himself is the right step for Barry, Westallen and their dynamic as a family. Btw where does Iris live? And are they actually going to build a new set for Barry’s place or be lazy and use something easy…like the loft on Arrow. :p

If there was any doubt, The Flash is about to dive into Caitlin’s origin story as Killer Frost. How excited are you for Killer Frost? And how do you hope the writers approach it?

Alyssa: If there’s anything that makes me beyond excited about The Flash moving forward it’s definitely Caitlin Snow’s Killer Frost arc. To be honest, I was hesitant at first with the Killer Frost storyline because when we met her, she was already a villain on Earth-2. But this arc that Caitlin is about to go on Earth-1 shows that villains aren’t born, they’re made. This is a chance for Caitlin to not fight to be a hero and not a villain. It’s going to make for an amazing arc for Danielle Panabaker and for fans alike. We’ve already seen that Caitlin can use her powers for good – as she helped free Barry – but right now the real fight is going on inside of Caitlin’s head. Eventually she’s going to have to open up to someone about what’s happening. And guess what, her friends will accept her, embrace her, and support her. If she doesn’t open up, she might just become that villain she fears herself to become.

Lizzie: I’m excited – it’s about time Caitlin got a storyline for herself, one that didn’t involve a guy – any guy. The actress has been woefully underused, and the character has started to feel a bit flat at times, because she’s mostly just there, reacting to other people. Killer Frost was something that needed to happen – and it really feels like the cherry on top of the things Barry fucked up. I just hope the writers are willing to take the leap and do this right – not just half-ass it or “fix” it in a few episodes. Caitlin deserves for this to be a season-long storyline, and frankly, we the viewer’s deserve the same.
Done right, this could be a wonderful exploration of powers and what it means to be good – or evil. So, hopefully, the writers do this origin story justice.
Lyra: I’m over the moon about Caitlin having her own storyline. Do I want her to become evil? Hell no. But I love that they’re giving her a storyline that is her own. There’s no man tied to what’s happening to her. I also love that her powers haven’t been revealed yet. It’s developing slowly in the background, giving her time to come to terms with it, before it becomes part of the Team Flash dynamics. I hope that the writers continue with the pace that they have right now, don’t make it about another man, and make it that she doesn’t go evil. She has family & friends around to support her and stop her from becoming Killer Frost. This time has to be different.

After several months of cute flirting, Jesse and Wally finally acted on their feelings. What did you think about the two cuties?

Alyssa: FINALLY. I thought Jesse and Wally were adorable for the longest time. There was an obvious attraction and connection there that was just begging to be explored. But given how The Flash elected to send Jesse and her father back to Earth-2, we didn’t get to explore it in the deep way that could’ve been done. But even though it was much shorter than I wanted, I was glad that the show finally acknowledged the feelings between these two characters and let them express those feelings.
Lizzie: They’re cute. Like really, really cute. So cute that it’s sad to see Jesse go. But I’ve got no doubt she’ll be back, and I got no doubt there’s some drama coming their way. This is a TV show, after all. For now, though, it was nice to see Jesse being the one to take the first step, and it was nice to see Wally being the one with doubts. Quite a role reversal from what we usually see.
Lyra: It was like watching two puppies fight for a chew toy: adorable, awww worthy, and ends too soon. I really wanted Wally to explore the possibility of a new world away from Central City. Maybe he could go to school in Earth-2? Build a life? You all know how The Flash loves to take shortcuts when it comes to character development. Why not this? On the flip side I really wanted Jesse to stay. For the first time ever I didn’t hate her or end up being annoyed by her ignorance. She was at the start of her heroes journey and I wanted to see more. Guess The Flash only has room for one male superhero lead.

It was inevitable, but Wells and Jesse had to return to Earth-2. In doing so, Harry helped find the team another Harrison Wells doppleganger to help them out. What did you think about that storyline? And do you think this new Wells can be trusted?

Alyssa: I was so entertained by Harry Wells helping Team Flash find a doppleganger to replace him when he inevitably had to return to Earth-2. Not only was it entertaining to watch these different versions of Wells throughout the Multiverse, but I loved when Barry, Cisco, and Caitlin found a Wells they liked, which made Harry so incredibly jealous. It was cute. Harry does a lot to disguise how he really feels, but there’s no denying how much he cares about this team. Seeing them excited about a new Wells made him jealous because he didn’t want to be replaceable to them. He didn’t want them to forget him. Which, let’s be honest, they’ll never forget Harry. And I hope this isn’t the last we see of him.
Lizzie: Let me start by saying this is has got to be near the top of: Most Ridiculous Storylines The Flash has ever come up with. That being said, I can’t fault its results. I love me some Harrison Wells, and the thought that grumpy Harry had to leave was making me sad. Though, in a way, I’m still sad. Grumpy Harry was the best Harry. Not that I’m not giving new guy a chance. I am. I promise.
Lyra: I think it’s ridiculous that The Flash loves Tom Cavanaugh so much that they’re willing to throw logic out of the window. Keep the door to Grumpy Harrison open. He can come back. Why do you have to seek out a replacement when all other instances have gone so badly? It’s like Barry & Co. don’t recognize that this is not a chance worth taking. If you feel like your team is not enough then find other heroes that you’ve gotten to know, to join your team, and not some cheap knock off whose welcome with open arms because he’s the doppleganger.
The Flash airs Tuesdays at 8/7c on The CW. Stay tuned for another Flash roundtable next Monday!


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