Olivia Swann knows that the character of Michelle Mackey is pretty groundbreaking. But she also knows that she stands on the shoulders of those who came before her. Swann, who stars as the leader of the NCIS: Sydney team on the CBS drama, which has just returned for Season 2, sat down with Fangirlish to talk about the deepening dynamics of Season 2, being a woman in charge and if there’s romance ahead for J.D. and Mackey.
First, we had to discuss the fact that Swann is playing a woman in charge—not for the first time in the franchise, but still, not something super common. To that, she said, “It’s incredible. You know, I kind of really haven’t sat and thought about it too much because obviously I don’t want to put any kind of level of pressure on myself, but of course, I have to give so much credit to Vanessa Lachey from NCIS: Hawaii, you know, for paving this path for me and myself and Mackey.”
Ironically, when the show starts, we sort of think J.D. Dempsey (Todd Lasance) is going to be the boss—he isn’t. And we also think we have an idea of how the dynamics of the team are going to shake out, and then we don’t. Or at least, we had no way of predicting how quickly they would deepen, to the point that at the end of the first episode of Season 2, they’re all willing to fall on the sword for each other.
“In the scene I was like, oh, this is really lovely because I think it just shows, you know, how far the team has come. And even though it’s only episode one, so much happens that makes them all step up in completely different ways. Plus, I do love that one of the things that happens through season two is that there’s a little bit of splitting off when the team has to kind of go off in and do different things.
And then, “What would Mackey do?” is the question that floats around. Obviously, Mackey would be a maverick and probably do things she shouldn’t. So, you know, how does that influence the team and their choices is what we see.”
We also see more of Mackey and J.D., who end up paired together when the team splits off. And for Swann, exploring their relationship was one of the most exciting parts of Season 2. “What I love one about Mackey, but also about Mackey and J.D., it’s that they are very much partners in this. They are very much equals. And I do adore that she, you know, makes choices that mean that he doesn’t have to do certain things. Like at the end of the first episode, she feels more comfortable taking the shot, or doing the slightly harder thing.”
Plus, their relationship truly takes a big forward step forward in Episode 1. “I love that we see their dynamic really shift and solidify, even in Episode 1, in a whole new way that really allows them to open up to one another and trust each other.”
The question is—is it romantic? And if it is, how long will we have to wait? “I think there are always moments, in a scene, as an actor, where you’re like is it this? Is this what’s happening?”
“…But I guess the point of a will they/won’t they is that it’s never really confirmed. And that kind of is how it is for us. Like, we don’t really know. So, it’s about finding the truth in those moments of where they’re at currently.”
Even if Olivia Swann doesn’t have an answer to that question, or at least one she can give, that doesn’t mean she can’t promise more of their dynamic. “I loved working with Todd this season on just the building and blossoming of their relationship, which then leaves it up to interpretation. I think that’s more exciting than making a firm choice and committing to it. It gives it so much more scope. And we get to see these really lovely moments of them having fun and treating each other slightly differently than they have done before. And lightening up! Mackey lightens up in such a different way this season, which I think is really special. And a lot of that is with J.D. So, I think there is a lot of scope there.”
The catalyst for this is, of course, the revelation in Episode 1 that Mackey also has a kid—something she confides in J.D. about. For Swann, however, the reveal was important for another reason. “I kind of love the choice of it. I love how the reveal of it is just so simple, so vulnerable, and just so open. And that may have been the only thing that she reveals to him in this season, who knows? But it’s the fact that she chose to do it that speaks volumes and shows where they are at, and where they will kind of continue to grow to throughout the season.”
For now, the foundation is friendship. And that’s crucial. “That’s one of the things I loved playing and exploring this season, their friendship. And what I love about them both is no matter how much their friendship grows, and their trust grows, they will always hold each other accountable.” And that is, without a doubt, the thing that makes their partnership work.
“They’re kind of set on how they think and how they operate, but they will always like call each other out if they think something is amiss. And so that actually does create tension, which is always so juicy and so exciting to watch.”
Swann also talked about the relationship between the women of the show, and the example of the NCIS franchise when it comes to women. “I think all the women in NCIS across the whole franchise really do exude this level of independence and individuality, which is so inspiring. And I love that we get that as well with Mackie and Blue and Evie and allowing them to be exactly who they are.”
Of course, we also had to bring up Mackey’s relationship with DeShawn, who is her ride-or-die. Swann was clear that she’d love to explore how that came to be. “I would love to see more of it. I hope at some point we get some kind of backstory. That we get to see what made Mackie pick DeShawn as her first call?”
“But then he also mentions, how, once she trusts you, you know, you’re hers. And I love that sense of her fierceness and her loyalty to the people that she can trust. Now it’s about who on this team falls into that category. And I think that’s something we figure out this season as well.”
With so many mentions of the broader NCIS universe, we had to ask, can we cross our fingers for a crossover? The answer seems to be not just yet, but for Olivia Swann, the shared universe is made clear. “It’s all part of the same universe. And it’s really important to see how it works and see what works and then build our own version of that.”
Swann also shared that one of the themes for Mackey in Season 2 is “home,” and “what that means to her, and where that is, and what that is, and who that is.”
Those are a lot of important questions. “We really kind of get a sense of her trying to find her place in Sydney. Can she imagine that being a home? And what does that mean? And does that mean that these people are her family? What does that feel like? It’s a really kind of lovely underlying energy for her. And that was really kind of cool to play and add into certain scenes where, you know, she talks to certain people and starts feeling that sense of home.”
We certainly feel at home watching NCIS: Sydney, that’s for sure. And hopefully, we will be watching the show and Olivia Swann as Mackey for many seasons to come.
NCIS: Sydney airs Fridays at 8/7c on CBS.
I love that you got to do this kind of interview! 🙂