“Stolen Moments,” the eighth episode of NCIS’s Season 23, is a Jimmy Palmer episode. But it’s not just that, it’s a “day in the life of Jimmy Palmer” kind of episode, one co-written by the man who has embodied this character for over two decades, Brian Dietzen. No wonder it’s one of our favorite episodes we’ve watched of this show in a while.
Fangirlish sat down with Dietzen to discuss the episode, the AI message of the hour, and what the future has in store for Jimmy Palmer and Jessica Knight.
And Dietzen started by telling us how the episode came to be. “The person that I co-wrote this with was Jesse Stern, and he wrote a lot of really wonderful episodes for our show. But I think he was done writing for the show… maybe 13, 15 years ago, something like that.” But then, “he told Steven Binder, our showrunner, that he wanted to co-write an episode this year. And Steven said, ‘Hey, would you mind writing with Jesse? I think that’d be a good pairing.’ Jesse and I have been friends forever. So, I said, yeah, of course, that’d be wonderful.”
It was Stern who came up with the concept for the episode. “He said, Oh, you know what I really want to do? I want to do a day in the life of Jimmy Palmer. And I thought, I don’t know. Is that interesting? I’m just around dead bodies in the basement all day. There’s not much to watch.”
To me, saying I’d watch that, Dietzen laughed. “Then the idea was developed that perhaps there would be an AI chatbot that would help get Jimmy to be more efficient with his time and cost savings and all that sort of stuff.” Mostly because despite the fact that some of us would indeed watch it, an episode of Jimmy just by himself might be pretty dry.
“And that would actually enable me to talk with someone during the episodes because Jimmy’s not like Ducky. He’s not just going to talk to dead bodies.”
Dietzen also credited Binder for helping develop the idea, as well as the entire writing staff. “It never ceases to amaze me how everyone just works together to elevate everything that we come up with… that the writers come up with, rather. And this was no different.”
“I was humbled to have them pitch in and help with this one, including Diana Valentine, the director. She did a great job.”
But Dietzen and Stern still had to write the words, and Dietzen then had to act out what they meant for Jimmy. “As far as an examination of where Jimmy is at, I talked a little bit with some of the writers about where he’s at. And it feels like he’s spinning his wheels a little bit ever since he and Jess broke up. He’s doing his job. He’s enjoying his daughter and that sort of stuff. But he might not be advancing as much as he’d like to. So, this one, this episode, I think, might serve as a bit of a wake-up call for him.”
This is especially true when it comes to his relationship with Jessica, or at least, what he wants out of it. “It’s interesting because they broke up. The timing wasn’t right, as is said in the show. But by the end, is there something going on with Torres and Knight? Or is that something that’s going to happen in the future? We’re not really sure.”
Insert our earnest no please to a love triangle here.
“But as things move along, that was one thing that interested Jesse a lot. And me as well. Okay, well then, how does Jimmy feel about all of this stuff that’s happening? So, being able to get a little bit of a view of what it looks like for Jimmy, I think that was important to both of us. And I’m glad that we got to figure out how to make that happen in the show.”
What is Jimmy thinking as he sees Jessica and Nick? Why does he stop himself from calling out to her or saying something, as seemed to be his plan? “I’ll leave that to the viewer,” Dietzen said, though he did give us a few possibilities. “I think that everybody could kind of see something a little different, you know? It’s kind of a Rorschach test of like: oh, I could see that maybe he sees, oh man, that hand on the back means maybe they’re getting together, maybe there’s something brewing there, and it’s not my place to interrupt that.”
“Or maybe Jimmy’s misreading it, you know? Or maybe Jimmy just looks at it and says, ‘It feels like she’s just moving on with her life.’ And right now, is just not the right time for me and her, you know? And also, there’s this Bright Eyes lyric, “It all boils down to one quotable phrase, if you love something, give it away.” And, I think that if it’s meant to happen, it’s going to happen at some point. It’ll come back if it’s meant to be.”
We’re going to hang onto the someday here. We just watched Tony and Ziva get their happy ending after almost two decades, so we’re not about to lose faith.
The thing about this reflection, I told Dietzen, is that it misses the crucial point that Jessica seemed to be giving Jimmy a sign earlier in the episode, as she talked about her perfect first date and referred to the first time she and Jimmy went out. He, however, was too focused on the AI chatbot to notice. “I’m glad you picked that up,” Dietzen said with a smile.
“I’m glad that you pointed out that part out because I just love that moment. And I mean, this cast is incredible, you know, it’s so cool to write for all these people. But being able to play those specific moments where there’s just, you know, sliding doors, missed connections… and that’s one of the things that we wanted to explore, is that AI is undeniably an incredible tool. But to say that there’s no cost to it because you’re not paying money for it, there is a cost. There’s a cost in human connection.”
“There’s a cost in how we treat one another, how we talk to one another. In this case, what we’re even missing is what could be a sign of an olive branch, of a token of appreciation, of thanks, of any sort of connection. And Jimmy just totally, totally whiffs it. And yeah, that’s kind of part for the course for Jimmy Palmer, though. He misses out on some of those things sometimes.”
‘Stolen Moments’ is, in general, a commentary on AI and how we, as part of the entertainment industry, can or should move forward. “I think that it’s nuts to think, oh, there’s AI is coming and we’re just going to opt out,” Dietzen said. “I don’t want our industry to have to go through that. That’s not reality. You know, this thing’s here right now. And it’s only going to get more and more advanced. It’s going to get more and more intricate and accessible.”
For Dietzen, the future is about humanity, though. “What we have to do is learn how to use this stuff and make ourselves as artists indispensable in the artistic process so that actors are still used, that writers are still used, and directors and that our crews still have employment.”
And it’s not just about the fact that it’s important that people can still do their jobs, either. “But because they’re a huge part of this artistic process, and humans are what make these stories. If you leave it up to an AI to make all the stories, it’s going to start feeding on itself, because AI can only reinterpret so many times the same stories.”
This particular story, about Jimmy, underscored something Dietzen wants us to know: “Jimmy needs human connection,” and perhaps down in the lab, he’s missing out on it. “Jimmy flourished for a long time under Dr. Mallard’s tutelage. He became a doctor because he had this experience with his mentor. He studied so that he could one day take those reins and become the NCIS Medical Examiner.”
“And he did it because he was around people. And there’s a reason why everyone comes down to Jimmy here and there for a talk. Whether it’s Torres or Knight or even Parker comes down just to say hello, just to check in, and to have a real human connection.”
But is it enough? “For someone who works around dead bodies all the time, he really does need a human connection. And I think after Dr. Mallard passed away, that connection was really served by having a relationship with Jessica. Now that he has neither of those relationships, there’s a void that’s left. And I’m not saying the only solution is, ‘oh, you got to get back with your ex-girlfriend.’ But there is a void that’s left.”
The episode even spells it out. Jimmy is lonely. What does he do about it? “To see that there is loneliness, it’s not the worst thing in the world. Everyone needs to be lonely at some point. But I like the fact that we can explore that a little bit. And honor the fact that there are ebbs and flows in life. Right now, for Jimmy, he’s going through a time that’s a little tough for him. And he’s got to find his own way out.”
What’s coming next? For Jimmy and for the show? Well, Dietzen joked he was “under a court order” not to “say anything” lest the powers that be get upset.
“But also, more importantly, it would spoil some real enjoyment of stuff that’s coming down the road and some heartache as well that’s coming down the road. We got some amazing stuff coming up. Scott Williams wrote the episode right after ours, which is the fall finale.”
And that promises to be a big one. “I think that the ending of that episode, there’s a lot of stuff that’s going to happen in that hour with Parker, and then wrapping some stuff up, hopefully with his mom. But there’s some new stuff that’s going to happen as well that is going to make people say, February cannot get here fast enough. We need this thing right now. So, there’s a lot that people are going to be looking forward to. I’m excited.”
So are we. And perhaps, after talking to Dietzen, we also understand Jimmy Palmer a little bit better.
NCIS airs Mondays at 8/7c on CBS.
