How Olicity Has Saved ‘Arrow’

When fans were first introduced to Oliver Queen in the Arrow pilot, we met a shell of a man who struggled with an overwhelming darkness that he seemed destined to make his home in. This hero that we were supposed to follow and supposed to invest in was closed off and aloof. He was unsympathetic.

But in one fateful moment in the show’s third episode we watched as Oliver Queen walked into Felicity Smoak’s cubicle and cracked a smile for the first time, showing us that perhaps this was a journey we could be invested in.

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That’s the moment Arrow changed. For the better.

Over the course of now four seasons we’ve watched as Oliver Queen has evolved from vigilante to hero facing bouts of adversity that had he been alone in the darkness would’ve spelled his end. But along the way Oliver developed two of the most important relationships in his life: his friendship with Diggle and his friendship-turned-true-love with Felicity.

The fact of the matter is that Felicity Smoak saved Oliver Queen from himself. First it was through her kindhearted nature as a member of the team, then it was through her loyal friendship, and finally a romance of epic proportions that has breathed sheer happiness into a man who has never believed he deserved it.

But the great thing about Oliver and Felicity’s relationship is that is wasn’t spawned overnight. It was a gradual, organic development that formed the strong foundation that defines their relationship to this day. But their love also transcends physical boundaries. Their relationship has never been about the physical intimacy but about the spiritual intimacy that has bonded these two from the start. Their relationship has been built upon a strong foundation of trust that has been heartfelt and inspiring to watch. Their mere presence around each other is enough to tame even the roughest of waters. It was that soul-to-soul connection that I, as well as thousands of fans, easily connected to.

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Now, I’ve made my love for Olicity pretty clear in my three years covering Arrow for Fangirlish. In fact, I’ve practically shouted it from the rooftops. So I’m not just writing this for the sake of writing. This has a purpose.

When it comes to opinions in fandoms I’m someone who respects individuals’ opinions and preferences to an extent – that extent being rational reason. But a recent article from Forbes.com titled “Arrow is Dead, and Olicity Killed It” spawned what you could call a “passionate” – passionate here meaning a downright uproar – response from me. And one thing you should know about me is that when I’m angry I write. And I am downright livid.

Now, to be honest I didn’t read anything of Forbes’ article past the horrid title (that’s enough to show you what little sense the author possesses), but my friend and fellow avid Olicity shipper and Fangirlish writer was kind enough to inform me of the hilarity contained within. Things like, “Arrow lost its greatest hero when they killed Laurel” or “Laurel died because she posed a threat to Olicity.” Can you believe that last one?

[Update: I’ve read the Forbes article and it’s even worse than I thought seeing as there are ZERO arguments in it. So clearly I made the right choice not reading it in the first place.]

Not only is that laughable because Laurel has never been a threat to Olicity, but it’s downright disrespectful to write off Laurel’s death as something petty and something other than the significance it will serve for the characters on this show moving forward. Everything isn’t all about shipping, okay Forbes? Sometimes significant events actually serve to drive the plot forward. I’m just saying.

Obviously my article is a long-winded but passionate rebuttal to Forbe’s not-so-well-thought-out argument (and this isn’t the first time they’ve dumped on the pairing) that was clearly intended to piss off a segment of fans rather than to actually serve a meaningful point.

When you think of superheroes you think of their heroic identity; their skill; and you think of that one person in their life that makes their life worth fighting for. Love has long been a part of everything in this world – whether it’s in fiction, our own lives, or hell, even comic books. Love is what makes life worth living. It’s what makes you feel so much passion for something that’s out of your control – like an OTP or those comic books.

Love in the world of a superhero’s journey is representative of that hero’s journey. That means that every significant relationship that he/she has ever had has shaped him/her in some significant way. And there is no more relationship more important than the hero’s true love. That true love inspires that hero when he/she needs it most; they inspire the hero to keep fighting despite the challenges; they show the hero what it means to truly be heroic.

Love it or not, Felicity Smoak is the true love of Oliver Queen’s life on Arrow. If you can’t accept it then you should move on because things will only get worse for you from hereon out.

When it comes to Oliver and Felicity something you often hear is the contrast of light and darkness. It’s something that has been essential in their relationship. Oliver has shrouded himself in this darkness for so long that he nearly lost himself. But Felicity represents that light that has been able to pull him back from the brink, as well as inspire him to believe that there is a light inside of him, as well. Because no matter how much Felicity might represent the light in Oliver’s life, at some point (as in the current time frame of Arrow) Oliver is going to need to rely on his own light.

The most important thing that Oliver needs is love. Love leads to trust; love leads to reassurance that he’s not the monster that he tells himself that he is even after four years of growth that has established him as a true hero. Felicity has been integral in that journey. She has believed in him when no one else did; she has inspired him to be the hero that he has always been destined to be. And it’s damn beautiful.

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When it comes to Oliver and Felicity something important you need to remember is that this is a symbiotic relationship. It’s an equal give-and-take. It’s not just Felicity inspiring Oliver to be a better person; it’s Oliver inspiring Felicity to be something she never thought she could become. They have brought meaning to each other’s lives in a way that you never dream can happen. But it does. Because it’s meant to be.

For three seasons now Arrow has been cultivating Oliver and Felicity’s love story. It’s been a natural progression in their relationship that has never felt forced, which you have to admire the writers for so beautifully cultivating a relationship and letting it go where it needs to. It’s a relationship that has inspired a fandom to open their hearts to this pairing and spread their love throughout all realms. It’s a relationship that has created a passionate fanbase unlike any other. Passion is a huge part of Oliver and Felicity’s relationship. Passion is essential.

When it comes to relationships the essence of true love is that someone makes you a better person. And it’s not by their actions. It’s what comes from them inspiring you to want to be a better person. Oliver and Felicity both inspire each other to be better versions of themselves, and they’ve proven time and time again that they are stronger together than apart.

Arrow has never been governed by comic canon, and that’s what has made it so great. Arrow has been allowed to explore this, for the most part, unknown hero and his journey to becoming a hero we can all look up to. But the important thing to remember is that the hero never gets to that end point by himself. He’s always surrounded by people in his life – whether it’s his true love (Felicity), family (Thea), and friends (Diggle, Laurel, Tommy, etc.) – that shape him into becoming that hero.

When you say that Olicity killed Arrow you’re essentially saying that Oliver’s journey has killed the show. Do you understand that? Oliver’s relationship with Felicity is a significant part of his journey, and it has made him the hero that everyone has wanted and known he would be.

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So you can cry about your comic canon and complain that there’s too much romance and not enough action, but the fact of the matter is that the only reason we give a damn about the hero in the suit is because we give a damn about the man or woman underneath.

If you give a damn about Oliver Queen at all then you give a damn about the man he is; the man he was; and the man he has become. And that man – this Green Arrow that he’s finally become – is a result of his relationship with Felicity Smoak on top of other relationships. There is no Oliver Queen without Felicity Smoak. There is no Green Arrow without Felicity Smoak. And Arrow without Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow is, why I should say, nonexistent.

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291 Comments

  1. Bravo, Alyssa! That article annoyed me too because it ignores everything the show has ever told us about these characters. Your article however did an amazing job of setting the record straight.

    1. Thank you for the kind words!

    2. At least you read it. Alyssa didn’t bother so I have no idea how she’s in any position to set anything straight.

      1. I have read the article as I’ve stated several times. But my basis went off the headline alone and how the guy’s rant was simply to complain that Olicity has killed the show. This was the opposing side of the argument.

      2. I have read the article as I’ve stated several times. But my basis went off the headline alone and how the guy’s rant was simply to complain that Olicity has killed the show. This was the opposing side of the argument.

    3. At least you read it. Alyssa didn’t bother so I have no idea how she’s in any position to set anything straight.

  2. Bravo! I think the writer of that messy article wouldn’t come off so bad if it was just his honest opinion but I feel it’s not genuine but just to be petty and that alone should terminate him from writing any articles imo. Now, I get why her fans are upset though their over the top nuttiness is laughable and sad at the same time but honestly? Laurel died because of two main reasons 1. KC was an ass and it got her fired and 2. It opens up such an array of wonderful character growth and stories for all the characters, especially Oliver, Diggle and Quentin who will be eternally changed and with Felicity and Thea it will give them new personal missions we can expect to enjoy. I made no secret how I feel about the character but even if I was Laurel’s biggest fan I would still be so excited for what the show has in store. Quentin leaning on his new family? YES Diggle getting the richly compelling dark arc he deserves YES, Felicity realizing that Team Arrow is truly her family and she can never really leave because she is too invested and it will really emphasize how much these people really mean to her? YES and of course Oliver the broody, self-loathing pessimist who blames himself for everything will FINALLY realize that not everything that happens to people he loves or the city is his fault! Because Diggle, Thea, Quentin and Felicity will get darker Oliver has to get lighter and this is what I’ve been waiting for all season: Oliver guiding the people who have always guided him back to the light. THIS is when Oliver will truly become the Green Arrow. So to make my point, Olicity isn’t killing the show because the show IS as much about Olicity as it is about OliverDiggle, as it is about Queen siblings and family, as it is about redemption, sacrifice, light vs. dark and most importantly family. Arrow is actually not a show about a dark vigilante turned superhero, it’s apart of it but not the true core of the show. Arrow is really about….drum rolling….. Love. That has always been the series theme as far as I;m concerned, these people are all Oliver’s family and family to each other so Olicity fits right in because they’re the greatest love story Arrow or most comic book shows have ever told. A notch below them is Dyla 😉

    1. Please learn how to utilise paragraphs.

      1. Please don’t read if you are that upset. Quit policing people on the internet.

      2. It’s simply common courtesy. If you can’t manage to use paragraphs don’t bother writing long posts.

    2. Thank you! The thing is I didn’t want to make this about his article so
      much as bring attention to what makes Olicity so great. But I couldn’t
      help referencing the article because it was the motivation behind it.

      1. Oh I get it. I just was getting some things off my chest after reading that mess lol

      2. I definitely understand. Passion does that! Thanks for your continued support, Kendall!

      3. I definitely understand. Passion does that! Thanks for your continued support, Kendall!

  3. “I didn’t read anything of Forbes’ article past the horrid title”
    And then goes on to describe the Forbes author’s “lack of sense”.
    You didn’t read the article, and yet you pretend to then know what it contains. You’re either a psychic or and imbecile who is so entitled that you believe your opinion to be the gospel truth. Given that the former doesn’t actually exist, we’re forced to assume the latter.

    1. I don’t care about Olicity, but the Forbes article amounted nothing more than a grown man throwing tantrum because he doesn’t like a romance arc on a TV show and then saying that he’s going to keep writing about this thing he hates as an excuse to keep whining as well being a hero to online bullies and fanatics. It’s hilarious that he suddenly pretending that he likes Laurel just to write click-baity articles about Olicity and try to get a rise out of people.

      1. “he’s going to keep writing about this thing he hates as an excuse to keep whining”
        More likely, he’s going to do it as a function of it being the job he’s paid to do.
        Be serious here… what was a really engaging TV show has turned into a daytime soap.

      2. We’re serious here. We’ve been serious all along. We like Arrow. We like what’s it’s become. We don’t think Laurel was ever a well written character, and no, we don’t think the writers did her justice. On that, at least, we agree. But we also like Olicity and don’t think it killed the show. We’ll continue to watch and enjoy. You don’t have to, if you don’t like it. To each his own.

      3. “We”
        What are you, some sort of hive mind?
        “To each his own”
        Sure.

      4. No Miglet – we aren’t some sort of Hive mind. But Lissete does write for us – and she can speak for this site. We are fine that people don’t agree with us – but we have stated our opinion – we stand behind it, as you will yours.

      5. No Miglet – we aren’t some sort of Hive mind. But Lissete does write for us – and she can speak for this site. We are fine that people don’t agree with us – but we have stated our opinion – we stand behind it, as you will yours.

      6. Laurel did become a well written character in this past season. The Assistant DA story along with her improving vigilante skills and no-nonsense attitude as the voice of reason on the team kind of did all that. Everyone was waiting for her character to be salvaged so she could be *the* Black Canary.
        Killing off Black Canary in Arrow is like killing off Lois in a Superman show or killing off Alfred in a Batman show.
        It’s just that whenever the writers shine a spotlight on a female character (Laurel early on, Felicity now), they turn her into a manipulative psychopath. When they ignore them (Felicity early, Laurel now), they act human and become popular.
        The Olicity fanbase is also toxic. Apparently harassing Stephen Amell by photoshopping EBR in place of his wife in their photographs. Christ.

      7. I liked to counter your last point and say fandom in general is toxic. Because you must have missed all the hate accounts attacking EBR calling her fat and telling her to kill herself, simply because Felicity isn’t ‘comic canon.’ LL fans are sending hate and harassment and actual death threats to Olicity fans and even the writers right now on twitter. Don’t pretend one side is completely innocent. That’s just false.

      8. You’re mistaking no writing with good writing.
        “Killing off Black Canary in Arrow is like killing off Lois in a Superman show or killing off Alfred in a Batman show.”
        Personally, I wouldn’t mind a Superman story were Lois dies or a Batman story were Alfred dies. There’s nothing wrong with different versions of the a story with different outcomes. As it is, however, your making a huge false equivalence. Lois and Alfred were created to be supporting Superman and Batman characters respectively. Green Arrow and Black Canary were created independently. That’s probably one of the reasons why they work as well as they do in several of their stories. One of many problems Laurel has had is that she was introduced on Arrow as the main love interest instead of as her own character. A horrible foundation for an awful character that never works. In some stories it’s fine to cast a love interest, but in this case it missed the very heart of that character and her relationship with Oliver. Ironically, this is probably one of the reasons Felicity and Oliver work better in this story, because they actually have this one critical ingredient in common with comic Dinah/Oliver. Felicity wasn’t introduced as a love interest, she was introduced as a partner crime fighter and then the producers decided they liked the romantic energy between the two characters.
        “The Olicity fanbase is also toxic. Apparently harassing Stephen Amell by photoshopping EBR in place of his wife in their photographs. Christ.”
        This mostly seems like silly fun. If it really offends Stephen Amell or his wife they can ask them to stop (Maybe they have, I don’t know). It doesn’t come close to the endless onslaught that gets thrown at Olicity fans daily

      9. Forbes needs to reassess their basic standards if they’re going to pay a man to throw tantrums posing as criticisms and court friendships with internet trolls.
        The show has always been pretty soapy to me. It’s the thing it has most in common with superhero comics. A melodrama that’s now rid itself of its worst character.

      10. Forbes needs to reassess their basic standards if they’re going to pay a man to throw tantrums posing as criticisms and court friendships with internet trolls.
        The show has always been pretty soapy to me. It’s the thing it has most in common with superhero comics. A melodrama that’s now rid itself of its worst character.

      11. “pay a man to throw tantrums posing as criticisms and court friendships with internet trolls”
        Shouting at boogeymen because you don’t like the justified (IMO) opinion of an entertainment critic. Aside from being a pretty petty form of ad hominem, you’re not actually addressing his argument.
        To that, and your second point, Arrow started off more drama, less soap… and that has unfortunately changed, particularly with the poorly and over -used death/resurrection trope.

      12. He didn’t make any arguments. He blamed Olicity for the death of Laurel Lance without a shred of evidence and has since spent a great deal of time on twitter befriending people who make death threats to TV writers and producer while pretending it’s not true.
        Olicity didn’t kill Laurel. The writers killed her because they got tired of trying to make an awful interpretation of a classic comic character (one of my favs) work on screen. They also, I conjecture, decided to rid themselves of the character’s online hate group posing as a fanbase. I’m not shouting the boogyman, the writer in question is creating a boogyman out of Olicity to express phony outrage about the death of a character he’s had no feelings for except general contempt to outright antipathy in the the very recent past. Why the miraculous change of heart about a character he used to loath? Simple, he’ll change his shallow opinions about anything on a dime for any excuse to troll Olicity fans and get clicks. The funniest thing was him hating on having Laurel use her dying words for Olicity, when that was actually Katie Cassidy’s idea. Then proceeding to prop Cassidy and encourage her to better things (not likely).
        Your opinions about Arrow are tired. Like most great comic runs, the show is, and always has been, a glorified soap. Watch it or don’t, makes no difference to me.

      13. Why do you need to make a rebuttal article of someone’s work, what does it take away from you. Is Olicity some kind of propaganda.

      14. Because she disagrees? It doesn’t take anything away from anyone – he has an opinion, and so does she. He’s free to express it, she’s free to write a rebuttal. That’s sort of what free speech is all about.
        And I think everyone would have loved to engage the Forbes writer in a online debate/discussion but he resorted to calling the writer of this article names and making fun of her across all his social media accounts. This article didn’t insult HIM, it expressly talked about his opinions. He, however, chose to refer to the person writing the article, not her opinions. That makes any actual debate/discussion impossible.

      15. Propaganda? Expressing an opinion is not propaganda. This comment seems like an attempt at mediation, which is respectable, but I’m afraid were a bit past that. In my experience, and I say this as a 27 year old man who’s never been involved in “shipping” culture, the Olicity fandom is one of the most viciously bullied groups I’ve ever had the misfortune to witness online. Watching an endless litany of insults like “cunt” “bitch” “slut” and numerous other gross pejoratives, in combination with broad accusations of “ruining Arrow” and “being the scum of all existence”, often followed up by invitations to to hurt themselves or be hurt by others, has given my little sympathy for your side of the argument. This is not propaganda. These are the things I’ve simply seen with my two eyes. Many of the Disqus users currently commenting and up-voting comments on this page I’ve personally seen do this in the past (not you, as far as I know). I’ve been involved in fandom culture all my life, and have read DC comics since I was very young. Amazingly, I’ve never felt the need to spend time aggressively attacking a fandom, one comprised mostly of woman, for committing the awful sin of showing enthusiasm for something. I don’t get needlessly angry when such fandoms get what they want, or make myself feel powerful by bulling them and throwing tantrums on the internet. Maybe if I could go a simple 24 hours without seeing this type behavior flourishing in the Arrow/Flash fandom sphere I’d be more tolerant of the other side, but as it is, I haven’t, so I’m not.
        The Forbes article does not engage in this level of intimidation, but the article and its author have become hubs for the kind of people who do. The article itself is a whining hatchet job, entirely devoid of substance or reason in favor of a pissy diatribe against something the author has made it clear he hates, yet continues to show a pathological obsession with. The article is overwhelmingly disingenuous. Erin/k is not a Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy fan. The fact that he’s pretending to be so that he can join them as allies to attack their real hated obsession, Olicity, is pathetic, and the ultimate shame of the author and all those who are coming to his defense.

      16. Thank you so much for this reply. There’s a segment of fans who attack Olicity fans simply because they’re bitter and they use the most vile of means to try to shout us down, to intimidate us into silence, to shame us for our preferences. We *are* called the most vile names and the more bitter they get, the worse the attacks become. I think this reflects more on those attacking than on us… the more they keep up this hateful and yes, anti-women, barrage, the more they color themselves as bullies. Everyone I know online who ships Olicity has experienced this nastiness firsthand. EVERYONE. Anyhow, thank you for stepping up here and calling a spade a spade.

      17. Thank you RCM! It’s entirely possible to have different opinions in a civil manner. But a lot of people don’t know how to do that. And you’re right the Olicity fandom has been unfairly attacked for their simply liking a couple. God forbid women like superheroes as well as the romance. Bless you and keep on slaying with your comments!

      18. Hi, Mister. Would you marry me ?

      19. There’s actually a line for this. LOL. I’ve been proposing marriage since yesterday/early this morning.
        If not marriage, though, I’d at least buy you a drink.

      20. Thank you all for your kind words, it’s very appreciated.

      21. I have, as well. Also at this point your drinks are bought for life, sir!

      22. I have, as well. Also at this point your drinks are bought for life, sir!

      23. It’s sad how much I appreciate reading your support for the Olicity fandom. Because yes, the hate the Olicity fandom receives, simply because they’re not from the comics, sickens me. I’ve honestly never seen anything like it. So thanks dude. I appreciate your understanding a lot. 😀

      24. Propaganda? Expressing an opinion is not propaganda. This comment seems like an attempt at mediation, which is respectable, but I’m afraid were a bit past that. In my experience, and I say this as a 27 year old man who’s never been involved in “shipping” culture, the Olicity fandom is one of the most viciously bullied groups I’ve ever had the misfortune to witness online. Watching an endless litany of insults like “cunt” “bitch” “slut” and numerous other gross pejoratives, in combination with broad accusations of “ruining Arrow” and “being the scum of all existence”, often followed up by invitations to to hurt themselves or be hurt by others, has given my little sympathy for your side of the argument. This is not propaganda. These are the things I’ve simply seen with my two eyes. Many of the Disqus users currently commenting and up-voting comments on this page I’ve personally seen do this in the past (not you, as far as I know). I’ve been involved in fandom culture all my life, and have read DC comics since I was very young. Amazingly, I’ve never felt the need to spend time aggressively attacking a fandom, one comprised mostly of woman, for committing the awful sin of showing enthusiasm for something. I don’t get needlessly angry when such fandoms get what they want, or make myself feel powerful by bulling them and throwing tantrums on the internet. Maybe if I could go a simple 24 hours without seeing this type behavior flourishing in the Arrow/Flash fandom sphere I’d be more tolerant of the other side, but as it is, I haven’t, so I’m not.
        The Forbes article does not engage in this level of intimidation, but the article and its author have become hubs for the kind of people who do. The article itself is a whining hatchet job, entirely devoid of substance or reason in favor of a pissy diatribe against something the author has made it clear he hates, yet continues to show a pathological obsession with. The article is overwhelmingly disingenuous. Erin/k is not a Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy fan. The fact that he’s pretending to be so that he can join them as allies to attack their real hated obsession, Olicity, is pathetic, and the ultimate shame of the author and all those who are coming to his defense.

    2. I’ve finally read the article and it would’ve been pointless to read given there are no arguments included in it. Also if you read you’d see this was a rebuttal to his argument in the title that “Arrow is Dead, and Olicity Killed It.”

      1. There are more than a few arguments. You’re either overlooking them or discounting them because you disagree with them.
        An easy summation is that Arrow has become about as deep and interesting in its character interactions, and its treatment of death as a plot device, and a terrible daytime soap.

      2. Okay, but WHY? You AND the writer of the original article still aren’t actually explaining HOW this is Olicity’s fault. You’re just stating YOUR opinion as fact.

      3. “explaining HOW this is Olicity’s fault”
        It’s not specifically “her” fault. She’s not real, and as such the blame lands at the feet of the writers. That’s not to say that you can’t place the blame on here as a function of the writing.

      4. She? You mean Felicity now?
        Let’s make this simple: Explain to me why in your opinion Olicity killed Arrow. Let’s leave everyone else out of the equation. I just want to hear your reasons.

      5. I’d say chief among the reasons… the show has wandered fully into the TV show genre of soap opera, and it is no longer the drama it started out as.
        But from the Forbes article, I’d say that this line is pertinent as to the writing of the show itself beyond the genre it’s settled in:
        “The Black Canary is dead, and she didn’t even go out with a bang. Her death wasn’t even about her.”

      6. The whole premise of the show had a love triangle, Oliver cheating on Laurel with her sister and his mother secretly having an affair with one of his father’s friends, who turned out to be his sister’s real father. Oh, and that man was also his best friend’s father, who was also going out with Laurel. You’re telling me the show has turned into a soap opera now that Oliver is in a monogamous relationship?
        And, I agree with that part of the original article. The death wasn’t about her. It wasn’t about Oliver either, or Felicity. It was about her father. Does it suck? Yeah. They never treated the character well, and certainly never knew how to write her. Her last words were a travesty. But she didn’t die because she was in the way of Olicity. She hadn’t been in the way of Olicity for 3 whole seasons.

      7. No, the show has turned into a soap opera due to the focus on those relationships.
        In Season 1, 2 and at time 3 the soap opera elements of the show were there but they were never the sole focus of an episode, you would have things like Oliver & Laurel’s amazing corridor scene which was soap opera esque but Laurel and Oliver didn’t then spend the next 4 episodes making passive aggressive quips at each other while Sara & Diggle told them that they just had to wait it out before talking to each other again. They had their fight, the episode moves on to focus on something else (such as Oliver doing actual vigilante things) before returning to that character pairing to resolve the argument in the future.
        In this season we’ve had an abundance of plot lines about Oliver and Felicity how they’re happy, how they’re angry at each other, how they’ve broken up, how she needs to leave the team; then as an extension we have Donna and Lance which means that we have more Felicity drama as she needs to advise her mother on what to do with the infamous line (paraphrasing here) saying that ‘Sometimes we need to keep secrets from those we love’.
        Then in the very next episode, she walks out on Oliver after he is put in an impossible position for doing exactly that.
        But back to the original point and to summarize, in the first few seasons the relationship drama took a back seat to the action plot of the week, often tying into it directly (Oliver/Thea fighting during the first appearance of Vertigo). In the current season it has either been the entire focus of the episode (Cupid episode) or taken centre stage.

      8. Have you ever read a comic book? They are soap operas, too. And I guess our lives are soap operas too since romance and love are the foundation of life.

      9. I don’t mean to be insulting but… Did you read my post at all?
        Also on the topic of reading comic books “There is no Oliver Queen without Felicity Smoak. There is no Green Arrow without Felicity Smoak.”
        You do realize that before Arrow Felicity was a minor Firestorm villain right? You do realize that Green Arrow & Black Canary are one of the core romances of the DC Universe on par with Lois Lane/Superman… Right?
        If you read my post you would know that I didn’t say that soap opera elements are the issue, most shows have them. I said that their dominance over any other plotline in the current (and arguably previous) season is.

      10. But her article is on the ARROW – TV categories. She’s clearly talking about the show, not the comics. We should treat them as two separate entities, because they are.
        Please explain how Oliver and Felicity in a committed, monogamous relationship is MORE soap-operaish than the Laurel/Oliver/Tommy love triangle + the you cheated on me with my sister! story-line of S1.

      11. Please read the conversation, you will see I have already addressed everything you have asked.
        To summarize; I was responding with comic knowledge to the accusation that I had not read a comic book.
        My issue isn’t with the soap opera elements of the show, I acknowledge that they have been there since the beginning, it’s with their dominance over the other elements that originally made the show popular and the fact that in this season they exist as a seperate story that doesn’t tie into anything else at all.

      12. Yes, I understand your last point completely. I just disagree that they are now dominant. I will, however agree that the way the relationship has been written since the William thing makes it a separate thing from the rest of the plot – that’s pretty much the only thing that made sense considering the mess of a storyline they gave both Oliver and Felicity in this regard. I don’t LIKE it, but I understand Felicity needing a break. Anyone in her position would.

      13. There was literally an entire episode around their break up/romance which even featured the name ‘Olicity’ being made canon…
        The episode before should have been about a rescue, became about Felicity leaving Oliver.
        The episode before was about Donna and Lance having an argument.
        Felicity got Central City destroyed in an alternate timeline by breaking up with Oliver just before a huge showdown with Savage.
        The mid season finale was ended with Oliver proposing to Felicity (then her getting shot).
        The return after the break was Oliver confessing how much he loved her and wanted to help such a strong and powerful woman.etc.etc.etc
        If you watch the Season 1, 2 and 3 season finales and then the season 4 one you will be able to see how the shows priorities have changed to more soap opera over Archery.

      14. Considering you seem to view the episodes through the Olicity/shipping lens, I’m inclined to think you’re more of a shipper than me. The rescue episode was about the rescue for me, the breakup was at the end. The episode before was about MUCH more than two people having an argument. Oliver confessing his love is ONE moment in one episode. Maybe if you paid attention to more than the shipping aspects you’d enjoy it more?

      15. You do realize that this “core romance” hasn’t even existed in the 4.5 years’ worth of comics we’ve had in the current comic universe? How can it be a “core romance” if that’s the case? Also, you do realize that this “core romance” ended with her divorcing him right when he needed her most, right?
        Also, a romance in which one partner constantly cheats and the other immaturely tolerates it is not a real romance. It’s more like an infatuation. If you truly love someone, you would never cheat on that person.

      16. Comics all go through phases of breaking up the power couples, see Clark Kent and Lana Lang. Hell see Smallville which had Clark and Lois antagonising each other for years before putting them together. That said eventually the two always end up together either in the next run of comics or movie or… Whatever. Hell the new GA comics will have the romance (I believe) or at the least Dinah(Laurel) and Oliver.
        I don’t see how the second part is relevant? But agreed I guess? However Oliver has definitely owned up to his pre-Island failings.
        It should be noted that I don’t ‘ship’ either romance. I ‘ship’ well written, well acted stories.

      17. Comics all go through phases of breaking up the power couples, see Clark Kent and Lana Lang. Hell see Smallville which had Clark and Lois antagonising each other for years before putting them together. That said eventually the two always end up together either in the next run of comics or movie or… Whatever. Hell the new GA comics will have the romance (I believe) or at the least Dinah(Laurel) and Oliver.
        I don’t see how the second part is relevant? But agreed I guess? However Oliver has definitely owned up to his pre-Island failings.
        It should be noted that I don’t ‘ship’ either romance. I ‘ship’ well written, well acted stories.

      18. Smallville also had Oliver not end up with Black Canary. Where are the people who complained about that (if there were any) now?
        As for not seeing how the second part is relevant…I think you’re probably the only one.

      19. Green Arrow also wasn’t the main character in Smallville… What you ‘Olicity’ fans aren’t getting is that we’re not complaining over some lost shipping war bollocks, we’re complaining over the mistreatment of the whole character of Dinah Laurel Lance. They have been building up her character to become the strong Black Canary for years, they finally get her to the stage where we can see her adopting her comic counterparts skill set, moves and attitude then… Well I’m sure you saw the episode.
        Additionally it’s just going over the same ground AGAIN. Sara has died once, Lance had a story arc about his bitterness, Sara died again, Lance had a story arc about losing her. We’re now having Laurel die which means he’s going to have to have a ‘losing a daughter’ arc for the third time… He only had two god damn daughters!
        We’re also complaining because the writing has been at best, average to terrible this season. They wrote the grave plot without knowing who they were going to have in it which is just evidence of this.
        I’m not seeing the link between me complaining about writing/focus on Felicity and you talking about the true definition of love?

      20. What you don’t seem to grasp is that most people here agree with you on Laurel. The writers never did the BC right, never knew how to write her, and certainly never did her justice. We all agree on that.
        And don’t for a moment believe that they didn’t know who was going to die from the beginning of the season. They did. Stephen Amell confirmed that HE knew when he was FILMING the scene, aka during the filming of the first episode. They’re just saying what they think the fans want to hear, which I will agree is ridiculous, but that’s the way it is.

      21. What you don’t seem to grasp is that most people here agree with you on Laurel. The writers never did the BC right, never knew how to write her, and certainly never did her justice. We all agree on that.
        And don’t for a moment believe that they didn’t know who was going to die from the beginning of the season. They did. Stephen Amell confirmed that HE knew when he was FILMING the scene, aka during the filming of the first episode. They’re just saying what they think the fans want to hear, which I will agree is ridiculous, but that’s the way it is.

      22. Comics usually involve relationships but its never the sole reason anyone reads a book.

      23. But it has been the focus of the show for the past two seasons.

      24. But it has been the focus of the show for the past two seasons.

      25. As is the case with “Arrow.” Olicity isn’t the sole reason to watch this show. It might be a major one, but just because people love Olicity doesn’t mean they don’t appreciate and love the plot, the action, the high-stakes.

      26. True but the relationship stuff is the focus of the show now. If you enjoy that fine, but understand plenty of us don’t

      27. It’s only a focus because it’s shaping Oliver’s journey. Also it doesn’t help that Arrow has 23 episodes every season and they need to expand the story. So they do it with the romance.

      28. I would agree if that wasn’t the case for the past two seasons. Its fine by mefor them to do this because I realize they are trying to cater to a different audience.

      29. I think they’re trying to cater to all audiences. The thing that’s great about “Arrow” is that it has everything – the action, the romance, the intrigue, the emotion – and a lot of people connect to different things.
        I suspect once the show brings Oliver and Felicity back together at season’s end (because this is television) that we’ll see a more plot-focused season five.

      30. Meh. I think I’m done either way. They have alienated far too much of their fanbase via their poor writing choices and boring/predictable action sequences. As example watch daredevil then watch this

      31. I love Daredevil, as well! I love how there are a variety of superhero shows out there for everyone.

      32. Comics usually involve relationships but its never the sole reason anyone reads a book.

      33. There are more than a few arguments. You’re either overlooking them or discounting them because you disagree with them.
        An easy summation is that Arrow has become about as deep and interesting in its character interactions, and its treatment of death as a plot device, and a terrible daytime soap.

    3. Are you the Forbes writer by any chance? Because you sound as if this article has specifically attacked you personally. It’s a rebuttal. Chill.

      1. No, I’m not. I just think that a “rebuttal” without even reading the article is fairly asinine.

      2. No, I’m not. I just think that a “rebuttal” without even reading the article is fairly asinine.

  4. Read the article first, then post your rebuttal. Pathetic and cancerous.

      1. Maybe, but not inaccurate. This type of mentality kills shows, like, well, like a cancer. People need to get a grip and not take shipping so seriously.

      2. AMEN. Maybe, in the sense of fairness, you should go inform the writer of the ORIGINAL article of this.
        Also, can I just ask what “type of mentality”? I’m really curious as to what your point is.

      3. I would, but Forbes has a horrid website and I can barely access comments thanks to my adblocker.
        As for the “type of mentality” – the idea that shipping is the be all and end all, and in particular, being so defensive in support of a ship, or aggressive in attacking another. It’s not just the Arrow fanbase that suffers from this, a lot of fanbases for TV shows are poisoned by it. You like a certain pairing? Great. Don’t attack others because they may not agree, and that’s what this reads like – one big, defensive rant supporting “their ship”.

      4. I would, but Forbes has a horrid website and I can barely access comments thanks to my adblocker.
        As for the “type of mentality” – the idea that shipping is the be all and end all, and in particular, being so defensive in support of a ship, or aggressive in attacking another. It’s not just the Arrow fanbase that suffers from this, a lot of fanbases for TV shows are poisoned by it. You like a certain pairing? Great. Don’t attack others because they may not agree, and that’s what this reads like – one big, defensive rant supporting “their ship”.

      5. I agree. Many fandoms, not just Arrow, take shipping to the extreme. But in this case my point is that the original article did it first. This is just a response to that.

      6. Right, like a grown man acting like a drama queen and writing melodramatic articles about how a ship “killed” a show and then threatening to keep writing about it just to be a dick. Some people should learn not to take things so seriously, but I don’t think you know who it is.

      7. I’m not arguing that the original article didn’t take it too seriously, I’m saying that this one did. Whether the original one did or not has no bearing on why this one has to take it so seriously as well.

      8. Clearly the writer on that Forbes article takes shipping seriously that he felt the need to write an article about it.

      9. The original article taking shipping too seriously does not excuse this also taking it too seriously.

      10. There’s a difference between an article about ‘Shipping’ and an article complaining about how the focus on romance is of detriment to the show.

      11. Maybe, but not inaccurate. This type of mentality kills shows, like, well, like a cancer. People need to get a grip and not take shipping so seriously.

    1. Cancerous? Seriously? If this article is cancerous – you need to reevaluate. Sorry, but that is a really big word and that’s not be used lightly.
      We can appreciate ships from all angles. We can appreciate that there are a lot of people that take it too far, but we don’t feel that we did. Look – I own this site, and I stand behind what Alyssa wrote. Just because the name of the site is FANGIRLISH doesn’t mean that fandom defines us and that we’re all fangirly. We take an objective look at all angles. But the truth is – watching Arrow – Oliver has been driven forward by his relationship with Felicity. And there is nothing wrong with that. If they don’t end up together – it won’t kill us. We’ll move on. BUT – it’s a huge part of the show. It’s made the show better, because she is a factor in making him a better man. That’s life – people being made better by other people.
      We respect that people have a difference of opinion. We respect that people may not always like the things we say. BUT – we will say them, because (1) they deserve to be said and (2) we have the right to express our opinion as well as anyone else.
      Yes, we know Fandoms. We know ships. We understand them and we write a hell of a lot about them. But – do we take it too seriously – no. We do our job and we write about them – yes.

      1. “Cancerous? Seriously? If this article is cancerous – you need to reevaluate. Sorry, but that is a really big word and that’s not be used lightly.”
        //Maybe, but not inaccurate. This type of mentality kills shows, like, well, like a cancer. People need to get a grip and not take shipping so seriously.//
        I don’t agree that I used the word “lightly”, though. I do believe the mentality really is a cancer to shows, it takes away from other, more meaningful discussion most of the time, show owners and actors get abused at times if a show doesn’t follow what they want, not to mention that the so-called “fanbase” is often split up with one side hating the guts of the other. It would be alright if it was just one aspect of discussion, but it often is the majority of it.
        I will note, also, that I wasn’t calling /you/ cancerous, but the article (to be specific, the mentality expressed through it), in case you took it as a personal attack.
        “We can appreciate ships from all angles. We can appreciate that there are a lot of people that take it too far, but we don’t feel that we did.”
        By all means and purposes, regardless of the issues with the original article, you wrote a large rant because one person didn’t like your ship, and wasn’t apologetic about it. That is the issue, That is taking shipping too seriously.
        “Look – I own this site, and I stand behind what Alyssa wrote. Just because the name of the site is FANGIRLISH doesn’t mean that fandom defines us and that we’re all fangirly. We take an objective look at all angles.”
        I don’t think I said it had to be otherwise. I just don’t think that is the case here.
        “But the truth is – watching Arrow – Oliver has been driven forward by his relationship with Felicity. And there is nothing wrong with that. If they don’t end up together – it won’t kill us. We’ll move on. BUT – it’s a huge part of the show. It’s made the show better, because she is a factor in making him a better man. That’s life – people being made better by other people.”
        You use the word “objective”, but this is subjective. Making the show better is an entirely subjective statement. It is not a fact. It’s an opinion.
        “We respect that people have a difference of opinion. We respect that people may not always like the things we say. BUT – we will say them, because (1) they deserve to be said and (2) we have the right to express our opinion as well as anyone else.”
        And I never said it should be otherwise.
        “Yes, we know Fandoms. We know ships. We understand them and we write a hell of a lot about them. But – do we take it too seriously – no. We do our job and we write about them – yes.”
        See, I’m not even saying you do it in general. I just feel that, in this article, it was taken too seriously. If you don’t feel so, then fine, great. You do you.

    2. Cancerous? Seriously? If this article is cancerous – you need to reevaluate. Sorry, but that is a really big word and that’s not be used lightly.
      We can appreciate ships from all angles. We can appreciate that there are a lot of people that take it too far, but we don’t feel that we did. Look – I own this site, and I stand behind what Alyssa wrote. Just because the name of the site is FANGIRLISH doesn’t mean that fandom defines us and that we’re all fangirly. We take an objective look at all angles. But the truth is – watching Arrow – Oliver has been driven forward by his relationship with Felicity. And there is nothing wrong with that. If they don’t end up together – it won’t kill us. We’ll move on. BUT – it’s a huge part of the show. It’s made the show better, because she is a factor in making him a better man. That’s life – people being made better by other people.
      We respect that people have a difference of opinion. We respect that people may not always like the things we say. BUT – we will say them, because (1) they deserve to be said and (2) we have the right to express our opinion as well as anyone else.
      Yes, we know Fandoms. We know ships. We understand them and we write a hell of a lot about them. But – do we take it too seriously – no. We do our job and we write about them – yes.

  5. It’s hilarious that an article was written as a rebuttal to something you didn’t even read. Maybe you should have done that first?

    1. Well, to be honest, the article contained no actual reasons as to WHY the writer thought that Olicity killed Arrow, just an assertion that it did.

    2. Did you read it? It was pretty childish. It’s embarrassing that he went back on all of his opinions about Laurel (he’s had nothing but disdain for the character in the past) and suddenly started pretending that he likes her just so he can attack Olicity fans. He clearly doesn’t care if his opinions show any integrity or consistency just so long as he can write attention seeking articles and be a praised by desperate online bullies.

    3. Did you read it? It was pretty childish. It’s embarrassing that he went back on all of his opinions about Laurel (he’s had nothing but disdain for the character in the past) and suddenly started pretending that he likes her just so he can attack Olicity fans. He clearly doesn’t care if his opinions show any integrity or consistency just so long as he can write attention seeking articles and be a praised by desperate online bullies.

      1. People are allowed to change their minds, and writers usually need to be objective even if they dont like a character/story.

    4. I have read the article, and it’s as bad as I thought as there are no
      arguments in it. Couldn’t have written a point-by-point rebuttal if I
      wanted to.

  6. Olicity is trash and ruined this show. There’s no arguing against that. We want a superhero show, not a whiny romance drama shitfest.

  7. Olicity is trash and ruined this show. There’s no arguing against that. We want a superhero show, not a whiny romance drama shitfest.

    1. You are entitled to your opinion. We respectfully disagree. We are getting a superhero show – but love, relationships, life – that’s all part of it too. See any superhero movie or TV show – it’s all a part of it.

      1. To be honest, the show promotes a cancerous view of relationships for young women. Being a completely controlling and ruthless force for change in your partner’s life is not healthy. Nor is emotional blackmail or destroying their sense of Self. Love isn’t about simply gazing at each other with doe eyes. The complete 180 done by Felicity’s character is a testament to the writers not knowing a thing about women or the real world.

      2. Yes, how dare a universe that has time travel, superhumans, and magic not take time to write a more “real world” relationship. The premise of the series involves people who engage in such exaggerated behavior that they put on costumes and fight crime, but heaven knows an exaggerated romance is going too far.

      3. Morality stays constant though. Despite the superpowers, they aren’t acting like the bad guy from Chronicle who thinks that he’s a new species who can kill as many lower species (humans) as he wants. Morality stays the same on these shows but the Olicity relationship has violated basic moral norms.
        Unless you’re saying you think that Felicity should totally be adopting the moral center of a villain even though she has no superpowers as an excuse.

      4. I’d also like to add that Oliver was still processing the news he had a child himself. He had not fully come to terms with the situation and how he was going to proceed as a father or a friend or whatever role he would be playing. He did not have the full story or a formed idea of what to do next. I think that would make keeping his promise even easier. He needed to be sure of how it would be impacting his life on his own before getting a megaphone and blasting the news to everyone in his life, including Felicity. Her reaction is completely unreasonable. A loving partner would have had an adult discussion about the situation and their feelings, not acted like everything is about her. It’s not like she’s the only one getting a shock.

      5. I’d also like to add that Oliver was still processing the news he had a child himself. He had not fully come to terms with the situation and how he was going to proceed as a father or a friend or whatever role he would be playing. He did not have the full story or a formed idea of what to do next. I think that would make keeping his promise even easier. He needed to be sure of how it would be impacting his life on his own before getting a megaphone and blasting the news to everyone in his life, including Felicity. Her reaction is completely unreasonable. A loving partner would have had an adult discussion about the situation and their feelings, not acted like everything is about her. It’s not like she’s the only one getting a shock.

      6. I completely agree. Love isn’t just gazing into each other’s eyes. Oliver and Felicity are the perfect representation of what a healthy relationship looks like on television. They have SHOWN their love through trust and support. But we’re not complaining about the loving gazes ?

      7. Psychologically manipulating and emotionally blackmailing him so she’s the center of his universe and effacing his entire sense of self in the process is a healthy relationship? Jeez I feel sorry for anyone you get into a relationship with.

      8. But how exactly has she done this? By demanding he be honest with the woman he wants to marry?
        And I’m going to ask you to please refrain from personal attacks/comments on the people you’re replying to. Notice how I didn’t end this reply with: Jeez, I feel sorry for anyone YOU get into a relationship with.

      9. By demanding he break his promises to other people and efface his own sense of honor/dignity. If she wanted to be involved in the life of *his* child, she should ask. Instead, she couldn’t handle the thought she’d even have to ask to control any part of his life, that there’d be a part of his life not under her control, and just broke it off. Smart, but it showed her true loyalty was to herself, not Oliver.

      10. This is clearly your interpretation of the situation – I very much disagree. I don’t think she wanted to control anything, I think that, as the woman he was going to marry, she just felt she deserved to know about something so big that it would influence the life they would have together. Samantha was wrong to ask that of Oliver, and I think Oliver was wrong to keep it a secret.
        Even if your interpretation were correct, though, I jut have to add this. You should always put YOURSELF first, not your partner.

      11. Samantha may have been wrong to ask that of Oliver but if you think Oliver was wrong for keeping his word, his promise, then we disagree on fundamental issues of morality so I don’t think we can come to agreement on any of this.

      12. Let’s just remember this was drama for the sake of the drama. The writers wanted Olicity to break up. Oliver was going to tell her originally, and he might have tried harder to convince Samantha if it weren’t for the fact that Barry told him Felicity was going to break up with him because of it. He was acting out of fear.

      13. This was also a promise that it made absolutely no sense to make. How would Felicity learning of William’s existence put the kid in any more danger than it did when Barry, Thea, or especially MALCOLM found out? There’s no reason he couldn’t have told her but asked her to keep it a secret because of that promise. It’s not like she was immediately gonna tell Samantha that she knew. Samantha would never have known that Felicity knew. Instead, keeping the secret meant trusting a woman he barely knew more than the love of his life and the woman he’s supposed to be able to trust the most. How people can turn that into an excuse to criticize FELICITY is beyond me.

      14. So a young woman tolerating her partner constantly cheating on her ISN’T “a cancerous view of relationships”?

      15. Uh… when did Oliver cheat on her? And Felicity hasn’t tolerated any dissent from him on any subject. She’d obviously never tolerate him cheating on her, which he hasn’t done.

      16. Laurel didn’t tolerate it. She didn’t even get the opportunity to.
        Then they threw her into a bizarre love triangle in the first season which prevented any development either way.

      17. Forgiving transgressions is not the same as tolerating them. She didn’t get into another relationship with Oliver aside from a hookup here and there.
        If someone wrongs me repeatedly, I might forgive them, but that doesn’t mean I have to keep them in my life. Forgiving helps ME, not them.

      18. Yes she did. In the flashback in Season 2, Sara specifically told Laurel that he was cheating with at least 10 girls ‘that they knew about’ and Laurel dismissed it and asked Sara why couldn’t she just be happy for her. She knew. She chose to ignore it. More fool Laurel.

      19. And in that scene between Laurel and Quentin, after Laurel found out about Oliver having a son, she specifically said that she’d tolerated his cheating before. Boy, some people have short memories. You’d think they’d be paying close attention to scenes containing their fave, but I guess not.

      20. Exactly. It’s kinda shocking how little people remember. Maybe they’re too focused on the comics to actually watch the show. It’s a conundrum.

      21. Um, you completely missed the point. Let me spell it out. You’re claiming that Olicity is “a cancerous view of relationships”. I disagree. The REAL “cancerous view of relationships” is that it’s ok to tolerate your partner cheating on you constantly, like Laurel did.

    2. You are entitled to your opinion. We respectfully disagree. We are getting a superhero show – but love, relationships, life – that’s all part of it too. See any superhero movie or TV show – it’s all a part of it.

    3. There’s plenty of arguing against that. Or did you not bother to read this article at all?

    4. This comment, as well as the commenters up-voting it (of whom I recognize from other boards), really go along way towards proving the points I’ve been making on this board over the last day.

  8. I congratulate you describe so well the process that has lived Oliver Queen and Green Arrow, I believe that many fans of the comic completely disapprove Olicity because it does not exist in the comic, but as this show is not 100% loyal to him, could make a healthy and wonderful relationship with another character, which has left many shocked fans. I without knowing the comic, I found incredibly well presented when a man-hero seeks his identity, their humanity and their sense of belonging to the real world. Thank you for writing.

    1. Thank you Donna! I wish people would understand that “Arrow” is not the Green Arrow comics. It’s a unique take on Green Arrow along with characters in the comics and not in comics. They’re separate entities that I’ve both enjoyed.

    2. Thank you Donna! I wish people would understand that “Arrow” is not the Green Arrow comics. It’s a unique take on Green Arrow along with characters in the comics and not in comics. They’re separate entities that I’ve both enjoyed.

  9. I congratulate you describe so well the process that has lived Oliver Queen and Green Arrow, I believe that many fans of the comic completely disapprove Olicity because it does not exist in the comic, but as this show is not 100% loyal to him, could make a healthy and wonderful relationship with another character, which has left many shocked fans. I without knowing the comic, I found incredibly well presented when a man-hero seeks his identity, their humanity and their sense of belonging to the real world. Thank you for writing.

  10. Forbes>>>>> Fangirl who?

  11. I’ll be honest, I completely disagree, and I want to give my reasons as to why Olicity isn’t good for the show… right now. Not trying to be toxic, just want a discussion here.
    Starting with the end of season 3 – Oliver and Felicity go away together. They both love each other, all good. Then at the start of season 4, Oliver is content with their life, but Felicity isn’t. She’s bored with the suburban lifestyle, and bored of Oliver, so she lies to Oliver and helps the team behind his back. I will come back to this later, but for now, Felicity convinces Oliver that they should go back to saving the city. Notice the problem? No?
    They head back, but Felicity breaks up with Oliver for keeping secrets from her to protect her. This is the life Felicity wanted, warts and all, but as soon as it gets tough, rather than believe he wanted to protect her, she decides to break up with Oliver. I’m not saying Oliver should have kept that secret, but the problem here, I believe, is that Felicity isn’t really in love with Oliver, she’s in love with the idealized version of him – Green Arrow. She loves the hero Oliver became, so she wanted to be with him. When they stopped, she got bored of Oliver, because he wasn’t a hero anymore, so she wanted them to go back and he became a hero again. But Oliver lied to her once about his child, she realized this grittiness of being a vigilante was part of the lifestyle, and she didn’t want to be part of that, so she broke up with him.
    My main problem with Felicity is that this whole thing is happening, but I feel like the show is even aware of what’s happening. Oliver’s still pinning after Felicity, Felicity is treated like a Mary Sue that can do no wrong, and no one ever actually criticizes her. Not once has anyone said “Felicity, you’re not in love with Oliver, you’re in love with Green Arrow”. If this was a real part of the show that was brought up and mentioned to either of them, it would help further both characters, especially Felicity.
    This leads me to my next point – the relationship isn’t actually helping to change either character in a meaningful way. If Oliver had learned from Felicity to be more trusting and open, as you have said, wouldn’t he have told someone, maybe Thea, that he had a son and talked about it with her, rather than waiting for it to be revealed? And Oliver is very tolerant of things – such as Felicity lying to him about working with the team at the start of season 4 – wouldn’t you think Felicity had learned from him and maybe given him some slack for lying about that? Maybe even a “Oliver, you know you can trust me with these things” rather than the “Oliver, you’ll never stop lying to me” that we got from her. I don’t see how either have changed in a meaningful way just due to being together.
    And in the end, the whole show is straight up supposed to be about the Green Arrow, hence the name of the show. If you’re going to build up a relationship in an action show, that relationship has to influence the characters, the world around them and importantly, the main story. “Olicity” hasn’t influenced the main plot in a way only a relationship can. Damien Darhk kidnaps Oliver’s child? Swap Felicity with Laurel – he got Samantha pregnant while with her, after all – and you would have the same story.
    You need to build the essence of the show first – the reason the majority of viewers turn in to watch it – and build subplots and relationships around that. Look at season 2, for example. Laurel has a drug abuse problem. When she find out Sebastian is working with Slade Wilson, no one believes her because of her addictions, but she gets clean and shows Oliver that he’s a bad guy. That’s an example of a side plot that influences the main story very well. Even in this season, Diggle’s sideplot with Andy has influenced the story – Andy working with HIVE. Now, give me one reason as to how Felicity getting stuck in a wheelchair has changed the story. Give me a reason as to how Felicity’s mother has influenced ANYTHING at all. (Don’t use being comic relief as an excuses – that was Felicity’s role in season 1 and she had a subplot with Walter.) They’ve changed the dynamics of Olicity a bit, sure, but what’s the point if it’s not influencing the whole point of the show – which is Team Arrow’s fight to save the city?
    Let me put this another way – if the show is insistent on giving us Olicity, what about a villain that forces Oliver to choose between Felicity or saving the local orphanage. However that turns out, it will have major repercussions on the dynamics of the whole group, especially Oliver and Felicity. Or flip it around – Felicity is secretly forced to spend the company’s money funding HIVE, or they will kill Oliver, and she can’t tell anyone. Right now, the Olicity story basically exists separate from the main story. They should both be fluid, able to change one another.
    TL;DR – The problem with Olicity is that the relationship is one thing that would make an interesting subplot while the show is acting like it’s a perfect love. The relationship isn’t affecting Oliver or Felicity, or the main story, in a meaningful way like other subplots are on the show, and in the end, too much screen time is spent on something that isn’t being handled in a way that positively affects the show. Oliver and Felicity can have a relationship in a way that would affect the show, story and other characters positively, but the writers don’t know how to pull that off.
    If you have a problem with what I’ve written, please, leave a comment – I would like to have a discussion with someone with the opposite views to me.
    (By the way, I never shipped Laurel and Oliver, and don’t really care who Oliver ends up with anyway.)

    1. I’m not going to tell you I LIKE how the writers have handled the whole William storyline, or Oliver lying to Felicity. That IS drama for the sake of drama, and it bothers me as much as it bothers you. But I would say Oliver’s whole belief that he can be a hero and a regular man, that he needs to go into battle with something to fight for, is rooted in his relationship with Felicity. That’s a lesson he got from her. Also, Felicity’s own issues were explored this year, in the episode where Ray came back, and we saw that she can also react badly and then take a step forward to join Oliver in a relationship of adults. Again, that’s a positive thing.

      1. His belief of being a hero and a regular man, I would say, does not come from just Felicity, I would tie that to many different things. He wanted to stop killing people due to Tommy’s death, and he basically became a hero after managing to save the city from Slade without having to kill him. But him being a hero and regular person, honestly, would have to come from Diggle. Dig’s just as big a part of the team as Felicity, but he manages to have a family while fighting crime, and able to be a regular person. In fact, I would argue that that is the reason Oliver thought he could have that relationship in the first place was due to Diggle.
        I will give you that one about Felicity’s issues bought up which affected her relationship with Oliver, though, that’s a good point that I had forgotten about. I still stand by my point, however, that Olicity isn’t really a give and take relationship. When Felicity had to deal with getting Ray back, Oliver did offer support emotionally for that problem, like when Oliver supported Felicity wanting to go back and help the team against HIVE. But, I still can’t think of a point where it’s been the other way around, when Oliver had a problem and Felicity offered her support with it.
        Felicity reacts negatively to a lot of things. Oliver always carries the weight of everything on his shoulders. The writers could do something positive with that, letting Oliver let loose more often and having Felicity react less when things go bad, but I feel like the relationship hasn’t done either of them any lasting good. And if it isn’t, then what’s the point of it being a subplot?

      2. His belief of being a hero and a regular man, I would say, does not come from just Felicity, I would tie that to many different things. He wanted to stop killing people due to Tommy’s death, and he basically became a hero after managing to save the city from Slade without having to kill him. But him being a hero and regular person, honestly, would have to come from Diggle. Dig’s just as big a part of the team as Felicity, but he manages to have a family while fighting crime, and able to be a regular person. In fact, I would argue that that is the reason Oliver thought he could have that relationship in the first place was due to Diggle.
        I will give you that one about Felicity’s issues bought up which affected her relationship with Oliver, though, that’s a good point that I had forgotten about. I still stand by my point, however, that Olicity isn’t really a give and take relationship. When Felicity had to deal with getting Ray back, Oliver did offer support emotionally for that problem, like when Oliver supported Felicity wanting to go back and help the team against HIVE. But, I still can’t think of a point where it’s been the other way around, when Oliver had a problem and Felicity offered her support with it.
        Felicity reacts negatively to a lot of things. Oliver always carries the weight of everything on his shoulders. The writers could do something positive with that, letting Oliver let loose more often and having Felicity react less when things go bad, but I feel like the relationship hasn’t done either of them any lasting good. And if it isn’t, then what’s the point of it being a subplot?

      3. I’ll give you Diggle’s importance. Diggle is, after all, the one who’s shown him the way. The specific moment that I had in mind re: Felicity, however, was the S3 finale, where she’s the one who supports him before the final fight with Ra’s, and ultimately, the one that, in my mind, shows him that he doesn’t have to detach from his Oliver Queen feelings to be effective as the Green Arrow.

      4. I’ll give you Diggle’s importance. Diggle is, after all, the one who’s shown him the way. The specific moment that I had in mind re: Felicity, however, was the S3 finale, where she’s the one who supports him before the final fight with Ra’s, and ultimately, the one that, in my mind, shows him that he doesn’t have to detach from his Oliver Queen feelings to be effective as the Green Arrow.

  12. I’ll be honest, I completely disagree, and I want to give my reasons as to why Olicity isn’t good for the show… right now. Not trying to be toxic, just want a discussion here.
    Starting with the end of season 3 – Oliver and Felicity go away together. They both love each other, all good. Then at the start of season 4, Oliver is content with their life, but Felicity isn’t. She’s bored with the suburban lifestyle, and bored of Oliver, so she lies to Oliver and helps the team behind his back. I will come back to this later, but for now, Felicity convinces Oliver that they should go back to saving the city. Notice the problem? No?
    They head back, but Felicity breaks up with Oliver for keeping secrets from her to protect her. This is the life Felicity wanted, warts and all, but as soon as it gets tough, rather than believe he wanted to protect her, she decides to break up with Oliver. I’m not saying Oliver should have kept that secret, but the problem here, I believe, is that Felicity isn’t really in love with Oliver, she’s in love with the idealized version of him – Green Arrow. She loves the hero Oliver became, so she wanted to be with him. When they stopped, she got bored of Oliver, because he wasn’t a hero anymore, so she wanted them to go back and he became a hero again. But Oliver lied to her once about his child, she realized this grittiness of being a vigilante was part of the lifestyle, and she didn’t want to be part of that, so she broke up with him.
    My main problem with Felicity is that this whole thing is happening, but I feel like the show is even aware of what’s happening. Oliver’s still pinning after Felicity, Felicity is treated like a Mary Sue that can do no wrong, and no one ever actually criticizes her. Not once has anyone said “Felicity, you’re not in love with Oliver, you’re in love with Green Arrow”. If this was a real part of the show that was brought up and mentioned to either of them, it would help further both characters, especially Felicity.
    This leads me to my next point – the relationship isn’t actually helping to change either character in a meaningful way. If Oliver had learned from Felicity to be more trusting and open, as you have said, wouldn’t he have told someone, maybe Thea, that he had a son and talked about it with her, rather than waiting for it to be revealed? And Oliver is very tolerant of things – such as Felicity lying to him about working with the team at the start of season 4 – wouldn’t you think Felicity had learned from him and maybe given him some slack for lying about that? Maybe even a “Oliver, you know you can trust me with these things” rather than the “Oliver, you’ll never stop lying to me” that we got from her. I don’t see how either have changed in a meaningful way just due to being together.
    And in the end, the whole show is straight up supposed to be about the Green Arrow, hence the name of the show. If you’re going to build up a relationship in an action show, that relationship has to influence the characters, the world around them and importantly, the main story. “Olicity” hasn’t influenced the main plot in a way only a relationship can. Damien Darhk kidnaps Oliver’s child? Swap Felicity with Laurel – he got Samantha pregnant while with her, after all – and you would have the same story.
    You need to build the essence of the show first – the reason the majority of viewers turn in to watch it – and build subplots and relationships around that. Look at season 2, for example. Laurel has a drug abuse problem. When she find out Sebastian is working with Slade Wilson, no one believes her because of her addictions, but she gets clean and shows Oliver that he’s a bad guy. That’s an example of a side plot that influences the main story very well. Even in this season, Diggle’s sideplot with Andy has influenced the story – Andy working with HIVE. Now, give me one reason as to how Felicity getting stuck in a wheelchair has changed the story. Give me a reason as to how Felicity’s mother has influenced ANYTHING at all. (Don’t use being comic relief as an excuses – that was Felicity’s role in season 1 and she had a subplot with Walter.) They’ve changed the dynamics of Olicity a bit, sure, but what’s the point if it’s not influencing the whole point of the show – which is Team Arrow’s fight to save the city?
    Let me put this another way – if the show is insistent on giving us Olicity, what about a villain that forces Oliver to choose between Felicity or saving the local orphanage. However that turns out, it will have major repercussions on the dynamics of the whole group, especially Oliver and Felicity. Or flip it around – Felicity is secretly forced to spend the company’s money funding HIVE, or they will kill Oliver, and she can’t tell anyone. Right now, the Olicity story basically exists separate from the main story. They should both be fluid, able to change one another.
    TL;DR – The problem with Olicity is that the relationship is one thing that would make an interesting subplot while the show is acting like it’s a perfect love. The relationship isn’t affecting Oliver or Felicity, or the main story, in a meaningful way like other subplots are on the show, and in the end, too much screen time is spent on something that isn’t being handled in a way that positively affects the show. Oliver and Felicity can have a relationship in a way that would affect the show, story and other characters positively, but the writers don’t know how to pull that off.
    If you have a problem with what I’ve written, please, leave a comment – I would like to have a discussion with someone with the opposite views to me.
    (By the way, I never shipped Laurel and Oliver, and don’t really care who Oliver ends up with anyway.)

  13. The show didn’t need saving. Felicity was a good character in seasons 1 and 2, once she and Oliver got together all good traits of her character died. He rode off into the sunset at the end of season 3 which given everything that happened to him on the island and his mission made no sense. It’s like Nolan’s version of Batman retiring just plain made no sense. The show on season 4 made a distinct shift in focus towards Oliver and Felicity’s relationship, it was no longer about Green Arrow the whole premise it was based on. Your article says Oliver inspires her to be things she could never be that’s funny because if anything Ray Palmer is more responsible for her current “growth” then anyone, he is the one who signed over his company to her, because he believed in her. What has Oliver inspired her to do? It was Walter’s kidnapping in season 1 that prompted her to join the team in the first place.
    No when I think about Superheros I don’t think about Love I think of the character and their actions and if the story is well written and if their deeds make them a hero. Laurel’s death is a slap in the face to mythos on which Arrow is built, it is a spit in the face of the segment of fans who came to this show because they loved Green Arrow, it’s a spit in the face of the fans of Black Canary, Black Canary is one of DC’s greatest female heroes, she has been ranked as one of the best fighters and has never been defined by her realtionship with Green Arrow, but she was always a part of his lore as he was hers. She was killed because of the actions of her father to further push Oliver to kill again, then her dying words are about his realtionship with Felicity.
    Many of us don’t concern ourselves if Oliver ends up with Laurel, Sara, Shado, Felicity, or some other random woman that comes along in this life. We came to this show because of the rich history of the characters that they could pull on to create compelling stories instead we get what the show has become.

    1. Laurel Lances’s whole existence on this show is a slap in the face to those of us who’ve been fans of Black Canary for years. The Katie Cassidy interpretation of the character, a radical reimagining that shares almost nothing in common with the source material, has been one of he most thoroughly awful presentations of a major DC superhero ever put in life action. She joins Shaquille O’Neal’s Steel and Halle Berry’s Catwoman as one of the most embarrassing onscreen DC persona’s ever. People have to stop scapegoating Felicity and Olicity for why this character failed. She was a failure from the moment go. The actress was horribly miscast, Her fraught, lifeless, all consuming black hole of charm and charisma style acting did the character no favors. The awful writing didn’t help. From her unpleasant backstory to her complete lack of primacy in the main story to the most ridiculous origin story ever written for a superhero. Let’s be glad the show has finally rid itself of its worst character so us Black Canary fans can be happy she’s no longer insulting our favorite super heroine with every bit of screen time she gobbles up.
      ” then her dying words are about his realtionship with Felicity.”
      Yes, Cassidy did offer some bad creative input there.
      Right from the beginning Arrow presented itself as more of a reimagining than straight adaptation of Green Arrow comics. The first episode fills itself with major changes from the source material. Most of the changes helped the show and the the franchise find a new audience and invested fanbase. It proved to be successful enough to spin off two other shows. Green Arrow has never been particularly popular comic character. He’s never achieved mainstream fame or held any primacy or even much relevance in popular culture. In order to sell a Green Arrow TV show, the writer felt they needed to make some substantial changes from the source to create a new audience. With the exception of their awful reimagining of Dinah Lance, their efforts were a success, and now hopefully the show can move on no longer bogged down wth its worst element and refocus on what it does well. If you’re waiting all the way till now to complain about dissimilar elements from the original material, then you’re about four years too late. Makes you seem a little dishonest.

      1. Please marry me. It would be a polyamourous relationship but we can make it work.

  14. The show didn’t need saving. Felicity was a good character in seasons 1 and 2, once she and Oliver got together all good traits of her character died. He rode off into the sunset at the end of season 3 which given everything that happened to him on the island and his mission made no sense. It’s like Nolan’s version of Batman retiring just plain made no sense. The show on season 4 made a distinct shift in focus towards Oliver and Felicity’s relationship, it was no longer about Green Arrow the whole premise it was based on. Your article says Oliver inspires her to be things she could never be that’s funny because if anything Ray Palmer is more responsible for her current “growth” then anyone, he is the one who signed over his company to her, because he believed in her. What has Oliver inspired her to do? It was Walter’s kidnapping in season 1 that prompted her to join the team in the first place.
    No when I think about Superheros I don’t think about Love I think of the character and their actions and if the story is well written and if their deeds make them a hero. Laurel’s death is a slap in the face to mythos on which Arrow is built, it is a spit in the face of the segment of fans who came to this show because they loved Green Arrow, it’s a spit in the face of the fans of Black Canary, Black Canary is one of DC’s greatest female heroes, she has been ranked as one of the best fighters and has never been defined by her realtionship with Green Arrow, but she was always a part of his lore as he was hers. She was killed because of the actions of her father to further push Oliver to kill again, then her dying words are about his realtionship with Felicity.
    Many of us don’t concern ourselves if Oliver ends up with Laurel, Sara, Shado, Felicity, or some other random woman that comes along in this life. We came to this show because of the rich history of the characters that they could pull on to create compelling stories instead we get what the show has become.

  15. “There is no Oliver Queen without Felicity Smoak. There is no Green Arrow without Felicity Smoak.” HAHAHAHAHA, have you even read a comic in your life?
    The fact you didn’t bother to read the Forbes article speaks volumes. I truly hope you enjoy the dying embers of Felicity and Friends before it gets cancelled.

    1. I’ve actually read plenty of comics in my life, but unlike you and a bunch of other comic fanboys I can enjoy a different reiteration of Green Arrow’s story. And in THIS version of Green Arrow’s story there is no Green Arrow (a true hero) without Felicity (the person that helped make him one).
      And I have read the Forbes article which was nothing other than an angry fanboy venting his hatred about a fictional couple. Thank you, I will enjoy this show for the many more years it has on the air. And the fact that you think “Felicity and Friends” is an insult humors me. I’d so watch that show.

  16. Proof that there is an Ollie Queen without Felicity: 70 years of comics.
    Read the Longbow Hunters…. Much the same Green Arrow as the show, and with no Felicity at all.

    1. Proof of different interpretations: 70 years of Green Arrow comics including where Green Arrow and Black Canary never meet.

      1. And including the 4.5 years in the current comics in which they’ve never met and in which Laurel doesn’t exist. (No, a character of a different name is NOT the same character, whether merged from previous incarnations or not.)

      2. Periods where this is true have been rare. Felicity and Oliver, on the other hand, only met for one poorly received six issue run, and are entirely absent one another’s lives for the rest of it.

      3. Periods where this is true have been rare. Felicity and Oliver, on the other hand, only met for one poorly received six issue run, and are entirely absent one another’s lives for the rest of it.

      4. Good thing that comic books and television shows are different mediums then.

      5. They are. But the television show that purports to be about a “Green Arrow” may want to bear a passing resemblance to the real thing – just saying.

    2. Proof of different interpretations: 70 years of Green Arrow comics including where Green Arrow and Black Canary never meet.

  17. Felicity turned into a manipulative psychopath. Oliver looks like he has PTSD around her. She’s constantly attacking him for anything which doesn’t place her in the center of his universe. She wants to stop him from being the Green Arrow. That’s why they will keep having an on-again, off-again relationship.
    That’s bad writing because the Felicity we first came to know was not like that. They just randomly decided to do that. What’s interesting is all the people pretending this Felicity is a good character, or good for Oliver, or that the Olicity fanbase are “good” as well. Must also be closet psychopaths.
    They could try to complete her turn into a heel/villain, and that would be interesting. The groundwork is already laid for that, and her father’s an avenue.

    1. I’m going to ignore the part where you not only insult the character, but every Olicity fan, and respond to your main issue here, which is the stupid storyline the writers saddled us with this season. I agree, it was bad. Oliver had no real plot reasons to hide William from her, but because the writers wanted drama, they made Oliver keep a secret. Fine. What I don’t understand is how Felicity lashing out at the man who asked her to marry him while keeping such a big secret makes HER a manipulative psychopath. They’ve been broken up for exactly 3 episodes, one where she lashed out at him and then left the Team, one where they were separated for half the episode, and another one where they had ONE scene together. And yet you use words like “constantly” and profess that she wants to stop him from being The Green Arrow when she’s the one who convinced him to come back to Star City and continue to be a hero.
      But, you don’t have to like the character OR the pairing. No one is really asking you to. We would, however, appreciate if you didn’t come into someone else’s article insulting a whole fanbase. You want a discussion? We can have that – let’s just dispense with the insults.

      1. “Oliver had no real plot reasons to hide William from her”
        Oliver had every reason too; he had just found out that he had a child and the mother requested (assuming based on her knowledge of Oliver Queen as a playboy) that he keep the child a secret to prevent tabloids around her house, people coming after her that Oliver had wronged.etc. She was absolutely within her rights to do so based on her knowledge of him, hell the reason she asked it was to find out if he had changed enough to trust him.
        Oliver even mentioned Felicity in the first meeting. She admitted herself that she put Oliver in an impossible position to Felicity as she didn’t understand how serious the relationship was (and likely didn’t think Oliver was capable of a serious relationship).
        She’s manipulative because her views change based on whether the situation is happening to somebody she knows (Donna/Lance) or to her, she told Donna only the episode before she walked out that ‘sometimes you have to keep secrets to protect the ones you love’. Then she blames Oliver for doing exactly that.

      2. The second Malolm found out about William all of Oliver’s arguments went out the window. Malolm knew and Oliver knew that he knew so therefore there was no reason to keep the secret anymore because he would need all the help he could get protecting him. Barry knew and Thea knew. There was no actual reason to hide it anymore except drama.
        How is Felicity manipulative when all she wanted was Oliver to be honest with her. They’re spending their lives together but at the first hurdle his inclination is to lie.

      3. How does (as he is so fond of reminding us) Ras Al Ghul finding out about Oliver’s son using his own methods mean that Oliver’s arguments go out the window?
        Oliver made the promise to the mother not to tell anyone however he cannot stop other people from connecting the dots if they look into it. Oliver was keeping his word to the mother of his child so he can be a part of his future life.
        Felicity is manipulative because she applies different rules to others than herself as stated. Also she manipulated him into coming back to Star City after LYING to him for months (helping the team while they were travelling) because she was bored of Oliver Queen and having a normal life.
        Oliver was happy and content in Ivy Town.

      4. Because at that point, he should be turning to people for help to protect his child from Malcolm. (see one episode later).
        James, do you remember episode one? Felicity did not want to move back to Star City. She clearly stated that she and Oliver could go back to Ivy Town and Oliver shut that down. She said she would be happy with him anywhere, despite being bored of the suburbs. She never said they had to move back. Oliver decided to come back because Thea needed him and because of Darkh. I realize it’s in vogue to blame Felicity for everything these days, but don’t come with made up BS.

      5. Manipulative: characterized by unscrupulous control of a situation or person.
        I think you want another word here. “Applying different rules to others than herself,” even if that were true, does not exactly make a person manipulative.

      6. Ah, direct manipulation instead of just exibiting characteristics.
        Alright, in S3 Felicity sleeps with Oliver then drugs him when his guard is down to stage an escape attempt after he says that he has to stay. Can you imagine the outrage if it had been the reverse?
        At the beginning of this series Oliver is happy living a new life, it emerges over the episode that Felicity has been working with the team behind his back and lying to him about it, because she is bored of suburban life and suburban Oliver Queen she encourages him to return to the city and resume his life as an angsty vigilante. She essentially get him to return to Star City because she is bored.

      7. Yes, she gets him to return. But then they stay because HE wants. She offers to go away whenever he wants, start a life together. HE wants to stay, because he wants the same thing she wants, to make a life together AND be a hero.
        Re: your first point, misguided, yes. I think if it were the other way around people would be like, oh, he’s so sweet, trying to protect her, though.

      8. Manipulative: characterized by unscrupulous control of a situation or person.
        I think you want another word here. “Applying different rules to others than herself,” even if that were true, does not exactly make a person manipulative.

      9. James, one thing. Oliver made a promise to Samantha, yes but what everyone seems to be forgetting is that he owes her absolutely nothing. She has lied to him for 9 (?) Years about having his son and if he hadn’t done the test himself, she would’ve kept lying to him. If you ask me, you should always pick the woman who has stood by you through everything over the one who has lied to you for years. Telling Felicity wouldn’t put William in any danger. If anything, she’d help him take the necessary measures to keep him safe and avoid the kidnapping.

      10. He owes her nothing true, but ultimately he was already in the wrong when he impregnated her (as he was with Laurel at the time). Would you admit that your son was the illegitimate child of a billionaire playboy who you had a one night stand with if he just one day decided to knock on your door and ask?
        If you didn’t want the media attention, hell no.
        In order to be in his son’s life, Oliver needed to prove that he was trustworthy to Samantha, if the first thing she heard when she came to the (apparently called) Bunker was that he told everyone, including Felicity after she expressely forbade it that really would be the last of his relationship with his son, no video, nothing.
        It wasn’t about danger, Samantha didn’t know he was The Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow; for her it was about the attention it would bring to her quiet life is Oliver Queen started telling people that she was the mother of his son.

      11. He was absolutely in the wrong for cheating on Laurel and impregnating Samantha but so was Samantha. She was an adult (and apparently friends with Laurel) and she knew exactly what she was doing. They were both adults, they made a choice and they both get to live with the consequences of that choice.
        To answer your question, no I probably wouldn’t want to admit that I had a one night stand that resulted in a child but does that make it right? No. I don’t have to tell the world but the father des have to know.
        Samantha had no reason to know whether he’d told Felicity or not. Plain and simple. Felicity has kept his biggest secret for 4 years now and you’re telling me she wouldn’t be able to keep her mouth shut about that? Come on
        Oliver didn’t wanna tell all the news outlets, no. He knows he’s a target. All he wanted was to not have to keep such a huge secret from his future wife.

      12. Yes he was.
        Yes she was, however not to the same extent as she was not the one in the relationship.
        Given the circumstances and Oliver’s lifestyle I suspect it was a drunken hook up.
        If you remember she did want to tell Oliver, however then Moira tried to bribe her with a million dollars to get rid of the baby so her little boy wouldn’t have to deal with it. I’m not sure I would want to tell Oliver after that reaction from his parents, nor want the family in the life of my child.
        Samantha had every right, she is the mother and ultimately if he had wanted Oliver could have claimed custody or visiting rights in court. Neither of them wanted that though so Oliver had to follow the mothers wishes and prove to her that he was worthy of being in his sons life (basically not a drunken playboy any more).
        He asked she said no. I personally disagree with her but as the mother who has raised the child singlehandedly after being chased away by Moira I think she has the right to demand proof that he has changed through asking him something.
        Even she admits it was horrible to ask when she finally meets Felicity and that she put him in an impossible position but she didn’t know he was the Green Arrow and as a result an actual responsible functioning adult.

      13. Yeah, Oliver was the one in the relationship but she was friends with Laurel. That’s when I really started blaming her.
        Yeah, I remember what happened with Moira. I didn’t blame her for wanting them away. However, Moira has been dead for years. Samantha admitted that she’s aware that he’s a different person now after coming back from the island. That she knows he’s running for mayor. As a public figure, if he was still the same person as before, I’m sure the media would find out. Hell, him asking her to tell Felicity proved that he was a different person. That he didn’t want to keep secrets from the woman he’s gonna marry. Not like the person Samantha knew at all. Samantha has rights but so does he. He’s the father no matter what. At the end of the day, she chose to keep her son away (after Moira dies). A choice that I don’t judge at all because I don’t know what I’d do in that situation but it was still her choice.
        If she didn’t trust that he was a changed person, she wouldn’t let him be in his son’s life at all. Plain and simple.

      14. He owes her nothing true, but ultimately he was already in the wrong when he impregnated her (as he was with Laurel at the time). Would you admit that your son was the illegitimate child of a billionaire playboy who you had a one night stand with if he just one day decided to knock on your door and ask?
        If you didn’t want the media attention, hell no.
        In order to be in his son’s life, Oliver needed to prove that he was trustworthy to Samantha, if the first thing she heard when she came to the (apparently called) Bunker was that he told everyone, including Felicity after she expressely forbade it that really would be the last of his relationship with his son, no video, nothing.
        It wasn’t about danger, Samantha didn’t know he was The Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow; for her it was about the attention it would bring to her quiet life is Oliver Queen started telling people that she was the mother of his son.

      15. Felicity broke up with him because Oliver kept a secret from him. A secret that wasn’t his to tell. Any half-way rational person could forgive him for that but nope… the melodrama just kept on rolling on. Another example of characters being written like unlikeable idiots for the purposes of drama. Which now that I think about is precisely the reason why some have turned against Olicity.

      16. So, if you one day married a woman who had a secret child she was keeping from you because her ex asked her to, you’d be perfectly fine with it when you found out? Not even a little mad?
        Kudos to you. You’re a better person than me.

      17. No, but I’m capable of coming to terms with it and understanding their position. What I wouldn’t do is immediately break up and throw away a life I’ve built with another.
        After that Felicity was spiteful and immature. The best example of that was the snide comments during the cupid episode.

      18. God forbid she is depicted as expressing a range of human emotions. I mean, Oliver can feel whatever he wants, but yet show a female character exploring the same thing and that is perceived as what… weakness on her part?

      19. You know what? I’ve had it with this “discussion”. If you’re a fan of Felicity then you should start giving a shit that she’s written like a petulant bratty child
        But you won’t see it that way because you’re too busy projecting your own romantic fantasies onto fictional characters to see how god awful it has become.
        Thanks for utterly destroying what used to be a good show. You and the Olicity devotees deserve the shit heap that it has become.

      20. I destroyed what used to be a good show? Wow, now I feel important.
        Also, funny that you don’t recognize my words – I’m actually quoting YOU. But hey, I guess only Black Widow deserves a defense like that. She wears leather, so she really IS a hero. *rolls eyes*

      21. Felicity broke up with him because Oliver kept a secret from him. A secret that wasn’t his to tell. Any half-way rational person could forgive him for that but nope… the melodrama just kept on rolling on. Another example of characters being written like unlikeable idiots for the purposes of drama. Which now that I think about is precisely the reason why some have turned against Olicity.

    2. “The Felicity we came to know was not like that…”
      Um that’s called character development. Character evolve on this television show. When we met Oliver he was a killer. Now he’s a hero. Look at that.

  18. as a man arrow fan I think that olicity actually saved arrow……arrow is the show about oliver’s queen journey as a hero..relationship are important! oliver himself said that since the moment he meet felicity everythings changed…the relationship with felicity made him a better person…marc guggenheim said that oliver and felicity bring the best in them both and it’s true..they are better together, i hope the writers let them get back together and why no?t, in season 5 write them as a married couple..It’d be an interesting thing to watch

  19. as a man arrow fan I think that olicity actually saved arrow……arrow is the show about oliver’s queen journey as a hero..relationship are important! oliver himself said that since the moment he meet felicity everythings changed…the relationship with felicity made him a better person…marc guggenheim said that oliver and felicity bring the best in them both and it’s true..they are better together, i hope the writers let them get back together and why no?t, in season 5 write them as a married couple..It’d be an interesting thing to watch

  20. I’m an Olicity fan but I wouldn’t go as far to say Olicity saved Arrow. I don’t think the show was in need of saving. It’s always been pretty watchable, if predictable, TV for me. The only part I 100% hated and was pushing me to quit, was the relationship between Oliver and Laurel in Season 1. I found it toxic and disgusting after the sister swapping, and there was too much back and forth with Laurel being so undecided on Oliver made me think she was pathetic after everything he’d done to her. Not something you want to think about the female lead. This isn’t even counting the complete black void of chemistry between Amell and Cassidy. That was painful to watch. Actually unbearable at times. I used the fast forward a lot.
    So when Felicity came along and just lightened Oliver and everything, I was glad. I was happy they started to move away from Lauriver and Oliver was able to evolve as a character too, slowly letting go of his past. Felicity bought out something in him that no one on the show had so far. I connected to Oliver through Felicity, and through Diggle to an extent. Those two made me root for Oliver. Those two are the reason I’m still here.
    I admit they’ve made a few mistakes with Olicity’s journey and they tend to rely on melodrama too often (I think this would happen if he was with Laurel instead though, it’s not just because it’s Felicity, it’s just poor writing) but the actors can sell pretty much anything with their chemistry and I still think Felicity brings out the best in him. The Oliver we saw with Felicity this season before they broke up – that’s the Oliver I want to see moving forward. That’s the Oliver I’ve been rooting for the whole time because I’m not watching a joint GA/BC show. I’m watching Arrow and I’m here for HIM. So yes. Thank god they gave the middle finger to comic canon otherwise I definitely wouldn’t be here.

    1. Thank you. This article was meant as a rebuttal to an article titled “Arrow a Dead and Olicity Killed It” hence the title of my article ?

      1. It can’t be a rebuttal if you haven’t actually read the article in question.

      2. Once again, I have read the article. And it wouldn’t have been possible to make a point-by-point rebuttal seeing as there were no arguments made in the Forbes argument. It was merely a fanboy ranting about how he hates Olicity.

      3. Try putting in the effort to actually understanding the other’s points before debating their worth. Reading it *before* you write a rebuttal is the bare minimum.

      4. What points were there to understand? The author, who has been known to hate Laurel Lance btw, used her as a prop to hate on Olicity. I think I understand that perfectly clear.

      5. Once again, I have read the article. And it wouldn’t have been possible to make a point-by-point rebuttal seeing as there were no arguments made in the Forbes argument. It was merely a fanboy ranting about how he hates Olicity.

      6. For the thousandth time (maybe it’s you that needs to start reading) I have read the article. If that’s the only criticism you have then okay.

      7. Are you suffering from memory loss? Because it says right there in your article that you didn’t read it.
        And reading it AFTER does not count.

      8. I didn’t need to read the article to write what I wrote. My opinion wasn’t spurned from that guy’s headline. The headline prompted me to write my article, which I don’t need to defend.

      9. “I haven’t read the article”
        “I have read the article”
        “I didn’t need to read the article”
        Okay. I’m not going to debate anything with someone who denies the reality in front of them.

  21. “spawned overnight. It was a gradual, organic development”
    I disagree. It did spawn overnight between season 2 and season 3. The entire premise of the final episodes of season 2 rested on Oliver tricking Slade into believing he loved Felicity and not Laurel– if that was true, Oliver was actual just painting a target on someone he truly loved, which seems very out of character for him. Especially considering that Oliver knew what Slade was capable of. Felicity herself was a more complex and interesting character when her love for Oliver was unrequited– she had her own motivations for being on team Arrow besides her connection to Oliver.
    “When it comes to Oliver and Felicity something you often hear is the contrast of light and darkness.”
    That supposed contrast is what is destroying the show because it makes Olviers character weaker and makes the character of Felicity unrecognizable. Besides being a “normal person” how does Felicity Smoak represent light? Felicity may not have started out shooting people full of Arrows but her character has just as much darkness as Oliver. She was more than willing to use the skills she possess against others. Whether you are maiming someone with an arrow or destroying their life by draining their bank account the end result is a life ruined. She joined “team arrow” because she wanted to help Walter and she didn’t trust Moira, not as a paragon of virture.
    The hero’s journey doesn’t need the frankly sexist trope of a moral woman showing him the way to be successful and you are right that the show needs to move beyond that– and fast.
    “She has believed in him when no one else did; she has inspired him to be the hero that he has always been destined to be.”
    She hasn’t. Maybe in your fanfiction she did, but she has left Oliver every time she hasn’t agreed with the path that he has chosen. Her method of teaching him to trust seems to be to turn away from him everytime he doesn’t trust her, which we have a recent example of with the Oliver’s secret child storyline, even though she should be completely aware of why he doesn’t.
    You never really present any evidence from the show to back up your claims. Saying things like “it’s meant to be” or “it’s a natural progression” doesn’t mean anything without evidence from the show. Your premise seems to be, “Oliver and Felicity both inspire each other to be better versions of themselves, and they’ve proven time and time again that they are stronger together than apart,” but I’m not sure that it’s really true or that the show has really shown us that.
    Look at this season. At the end of the last season Oliver was happy, but Felicity wasn’t. She caused them to come back to Star City and resume being super heroes, which resulted in them breaking up.

    1. Oliver and Felicity didn’t spawn overnight between Season 2 and Season 3. There’s hints dating back to Season 1. Even in early Season 2 Oliver’s speech about not being with someone he could really care about was about Felicity. He knew he had feelings for her then. Not to mention he killed the Count with 3 arrows when we all know he could have disarmed him. That was pure rage because Felicity specifically was in danger.
      Just because you didn’t see it or weren’t watching hard enough, doesn’t mean it wasn’t there.

    2. Ignoring the signs that that the Olicity relationship was blossoming does not automatically mean that those signs weren’t there. It just means you were ignorant to them. I remember all the fans telling Olicity shippers back then that we were “crazy” for daring to think we saw romantic tension between the two because “Olicity will never happen. Because of comics.” There was chemistry in season 1. When the writers decided they were done writing the L/O love story (in season 1, per their own words), they chose to move onto telling the Olicity love story instead. Season 2, in particular, was FULL of groundwork for this couple (one of the reasons I’m always amused when Olicity haters talk about how much they loved season 2… but they hate Olicity? Season 2 was a GOLD MINE of relationship growth for this couple and there’s pages upon pages of articles and metas and hours upon hours of video evidence of this. Basically, every time I hear an Olicity fan say that Olicity came out of nowhere in s3, what I hear is you saying “I didn’t want to see this relationship being developed naturally, so I ignored it until the show made it explicit and now I’m going to complain bitterly about it.”
      That’s all it comes down to. Bitterness. I’m sorry the show didn’t go the direction you wanted it to. I’m sorry this has ruined the show for you. But please don’t contradict not just what we’re seeing on our screens but what the show, the creators, the actors, etc have TOLD US, repeatedly. Just because you don’t want to believe it. It makes you look small and petty.

      1. Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them small and petty. Name calling does though.
        As alluded to to in my post, I read the “signs of their blossoming relationship” as Felicity’s unrequited attraction to Oliver but those were feelings that Oliver did not return. How do you read the final episode of season 2 then? That Oliver was willingly putting a target on someone he truly loved? Up to that point, what makes you think the self-sacrificing Oliver would do that?
        Given that the writer’s don’t want to alienate the Olicity fandom I’m not sure we can trust everything they say as being entirely truthful, instead I rely only on what I see in the show. Chemistry can be subjective and I truly don’t see it with Oliver and Felicity, especially when compared to Oliver’s other relationships. With Felicity Oliver always seems reserved, or holding back, and I don’t see the passion there he had with Sara, the Huntress, or even Laurel. There doesn’t seem to be any intimacy or closeness.
        Where you see love I see sickness, on both Felicity and Oliver’s part. Oliver doesn’t truly believe he is a hero but feels like a monster– instead of dealing with that he turns to Felicity who tries to convince him he can be a hero– if he plays by her rules. Felicity is portrayed as an insecure woman who falls into the same relationship trap shown in the episodes “The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak” using her relationship to feel powerful and live out her own hero fantasy until she gets in too deep. Their relationship is toxic because neither see each other for who they really are.
        For the record, I am a Black Canary fan, but I don’t think her and Green Arrow need to be together, or that she even needs to be a main character on the show. I simply think she should be alive in the Arrow universe to at least pop up every now and then, as an iconic and interesting character in her own right. But the problems with the Felicity/Oliver romance and Black Canary are really completely different issues.

      2. No, but complaining about a ship coming out of nowhere when it’s been proven that’s not the case *does* make you small and petty.
        I’ll tell you what I saw. I saw an awareness on both their parts in season 1. During 1×15, while trying to catch the Dodger. Again in 1×21. And again in 1×22. But it was just awareness. For both of them. When Oliver came back in 2×01, he was noticing Felicity a lot more. When she was hurt while trying to catch the Dollmaker in 2×03, he chose to check on her and make sure she was okay rather than chase the killer down. In 2×06, when Felicity saw Isabel coming out of Oliver’s room, she was noticeably disappointed (not just because of her own feelings, but because Isabel was the actual worst and she thought he deserved better than her). Oliver was noticeably regretful at the exchange. Later, he told her it didn’t mean anything. He didn’t *have* to do that, because they’re not together. At the time, that made me go “okay, that’s weird. Why is he explaining himself to her?”. Then, he said what he said, about “because of the life I lead, I just think it’s better to not be with someone I could really care about.” The look he gave her was meaningful and she understood what he meant. But they both understood that any kind of relationship between them was impossible. Oliver wasn’t ready. They were *unthinkable*. But the creators, writers and actors have since said that when Oliver said this, he most definitely *was* talking about Felicity. Stephen Amell has said that he himself believes that 2×06 is when Oliver began to realize his feelings for Felicity. He’s even said that the he believes the reason Isabel was so angry at Felicity (see: what she said to Dig about Felicity before the latter smacked her with the van in 2×22) was because Isabel realized Felicity was why she might not have had Oliver’s full attention during their hookup in 2×06. (I have proof for all these things, just let me know if you want me to dig up the links… there’s video proof and everything!)
        2×07 was when I first realized the writers were going ahead with Olicity. There was no mistaking the undertones not just in the scene where Oliver saved Felicity from the Count, but in the scene afterward in the foundry, where he assured her there was no choice to make when it came to saving her life. He killed and he would do it again. For her. He was clearly jealous (and annoyed at feeling jealous) of Barry in 2×08 and 2×09, which carried through into 2×10 resulting in him snapping at her and having to apologize at the end of the episode.
        Oliver got together with Sara because he was lonely and Sara understood him, much like Felicity did, and perhaps a bit more because the same darkness that was inside of him was inside of her. She was a safe choice for him to take comfort from, because she could take care of herself. She was also safe because he knew they weren’t permanent. Sara knew this even more than Oliver did, actually. He showed growth from the boy who ran from moving in with Laurel before the Gambit when he mentioned he and Sara getting a place together. But Sara understood that Oliver had feelings for Felicity and she also understood that she herself wasn’t what Oliver needed to bring out his light. She was struggling too much with the dark. So they broke up.
        When Slade took Laurel, he did so thinking she was the woman Oliver loved. Slade was remembering Oliver from when he was still fresh on that island, mooning over that tattered picture. He made a big assumption, believing Laurel to still have that significance in his life. What he didn’t count on was Felicity. He didn’t realize that Oliver’s feelings had shifted. When Oliver took Felicity to the mansion and told her to stay, told her that he loved her, yes it was mostly because of the cameras and trying to get Slade to take Felicity so she could administer the cure. But that does not mean that what he said wasn’t *true*. Slade *did* take the wrong woman. Oliver was in love with Felicity. He’s not the best liar, we always joke, and this moment was no less true. On the beach, Felicity tried to get him to take back what he said, but he wouldn’t. When fans were confused after the episode aired, wondering if he meant it or not, we turned to Marc Guggenheim, who clarified that YES, the “Unthinkable” in the title was very much that Oliver had to put the woman he loves in the line of fire in order to stop the bad guy. As Sara told Oliver, sometimes to stop the unthinkable you have to DO the unthinkable. So he did. But it also showed the enormous amount of TRUST he had in Felicity, that he trusted her to follow the plan. If she followed the plan, then he could keep her safe. And he did. The fact that he did showed his evolution towards becoming a hero… he trusted his team. He *grew*.
        (fyi: the next day at the CW Upfronts in NYC, Stephen Amell was asked on the red carpet about the “ruse” to fool Slade and he coyly hinted that perhaps it wasn’t just a ruse after all. Stephen, we later learned, knew at this point how season 3 would be ending. He knew Oliver and Felicity would drive off into the sunset together by the time season 2 ended. Again, I have receipts on this if you need them.)
        In 3×01, even, Dig told Oliver when he tried to argue that he’d only said what he had in order to fool Slade that “now the only one you’re fooling is yourself.” Dig knew. He’s been around since the start. The man isn’t stupid. Oliver’s answering grin told us all that, yes, Dig was right. Later on that episode, when Felicity again urged him to take what he said back, “Say you never loved me!” he grabbed her and kissed her. And he told her “Don’t ask me to say that I don’t love you.” He wouldn’t lie about that. How he feels about Felicity is one of the big *truths* in his life and is what grounds him to his journey as a hero.
        So yes. I say there’s been steady, clear and purposeful progression in this relationship all along. The writers have talked about this. The creators (all of them…AJK, MG, and GB) have talked about this. Stephen and Emily have talked about this. To continue to ignore the facts of the matter, both on screen and bts, makes you just look ignorant. And yes, considering how opposed you are to the relationship, *petty*.
        I agree sometimes chemistry can be subjective, but there is no denying the number of people who have remarked on the lack of chemistry between Laurel and Oliver. It hasn’t been just fans. The media took note of it too. I remember all those articles back at the time. Stephen had decent chemistry with other actresses, but none that captured the attention of the writers, the producers, the execs of at the network, the media, the fans as much as what shows up on screen with Emily. So the writers chose to write towards that. Again, many articles where this has been stated. I know you said you don’t “trust” anything said, but sometimes, when enough people start saying the same thing, you have to either believe or just *let it go*.
        And how we see this relationship is where we have a fundamental disagreement. The only toxic relationship I saw was a woman who was willing to overlook multiple instances of cheating in order to get the happily ever after she’d envisioned for herself. I see Felicity and Oliver inspiring each other. She helps him realize he can be a hero (and he is a hero, because otherwise why would we be here?? This story is about Oliver growing from the vengeful vigilante and into a fully realized hero living in the light and if you’ve somehow missed that then I think we have a lot bigger problems than just a ship). He helps her realize she can be more than just an IT girl. They’ve challenged each other to grow, to work outside their respective comfort zones. They respect each other as people, they have a natural affection for one another. What I saw in the “Secret Origin” was a woman who didn’t realize the power she had and who felt enormous guilt when that power resulted in a boy she loved being imprisoned. She carried that guilt and it made her decide to hide in IT until Oliver and her finally crossed paths. He made her believe again, that she could do more. I believe they absolutely see each other as who they are, more so than anyone else on the show is able to.
        But listen. You don’t have to agree. And I don’t care if you do or not. Your not liking that relationship has no bearing whatsoever on my liking it. I will continue to appreciate their story, their interactions, their growth as individuals and a couple regardless of whatever you think. So it’s fine. Truly. No hard feelings.
        As for Black Canary, I think it’s a shame. I understand how pivotal she is in the comic books. I think it was a mistake to introduce her into this show the way she was. I wish they’d actually stuck a little closer to the comic canon with that character. Sara Lance came close, arriving as a fully formed fighter and vigilante. Laurel never quite hit the mark for me. It always felt like a lot of *trying* that never really played off. When I first suspected LL might be leaving the show, I really did think they might go the “pop back in every now and then” route and was pretty surprised when I realized they intended her for the grave. So I think we agree there. And I think we also agree that Olicity and BC are two entirely different entities. Laurel wasn’t killed because of Olicity. I hope the character of Black Canary gets some good representation in the comics going forward, perhaps even a movie appearance or two (or three or however many). And I hope LL is given the respect she deserves, posthumously, in the show going forward. I believe she will but time will tell.

  22. That’s funny because this olicity crap is why I stopped watching.

    1. And yet you’re still commenting on articles about it. Interesting…

      1. Blame google now

      2. Google made you reply? I didn’t know it could do that.

      3. Lol no it popped up in my recommended articles feed because I used to watch the arrow. Good one though

      4. …Which still doesn’t explain your decision to reply to an article about a show that you don’t even like.

      5. Wow so its obvious that I have offended you by saying I no longer watch this show. Funny.

      6. Actually not at all.

      7. Cool then disregard

      8. Also, because its a free country, assuming you live in one too, if not I’m sorry 🙁

      9. LOL suuuuuuuure. Wink wink.

      10. Naw I used to watch the show but stopped when I saw it was getting the hardcore cw treatment. My wife still watches it though.

  23. I. dont care about a damn romance,just give me a good series.This season has been o boring,dhark is a bland villian with noghing going on we havent seen and the writing has just lost momentum in terms of story.Loo at Flash,supergirl,LOT,even gotham are all moving forward with there arcs that take us new and exciting places and villians like alternate eaths,Martian wars,Time trabel shenanigans and the order of saint dumas.
    At first I thought it was because arrow was confined to a city that noone cares about,and yet daredevil in two seasons protects a simple street of hells kitchen has better writing and themes than this show right now.Ras al ghul was awesome till he went back to the cliche destroy the city mwahaha finally,Damien is even worse because we know his plan,4 episodes in and I just want him gone so we can get a villian like Zoom,Azrael,Vandal savage,Wilson fisk,The punisher etc.Laurel sucked because they butchered her origin but now we may never get the bird s of prey,Healing felicity so fast took away any chance of oracle or an ACTUAL noteworthy arc similar to Oracles but nope.Noghing
    All I can do is pray they use someone like Prometheus,a proper Anarchy or even the red hood gang they want to crib from batman to give us a better villian than this one note original creation with noghing in common with the actual HIVE.
    The last true suprise arrow had was “killing” Oliver,since then its been relying on relationship drama over actual relevant plot and I hope the writers consider using the source material like longbow hunters or the quiver to make arrow relevant again.
    I agree felicity is fine on the show but they need something besides character drama to make the show relevant again.Its okay to stray fromthe Canon material,but find ways to at least put your own spin uniquely instead of blandly overusing relationship drama to give viewer investment

    1. No, we actually don’t know Damian’s plan. The only thing we know about the “Genesis” project is the name, as well as the title of an upcoming episode referencing a flood.

      1. And it doesnt bore you.We know noghing about Dhark or his wife to actually build an interesting character.We learned about Malcolm through his son and we undersrood him,we experianced Slades descent into a villian and his connection to Ollie.Ras was far more boring but through his interactions with his daughter and his constant exposition.18 episodes in,Dhark feels about as intriguing as a captain planet villian.It just feels lazy,why not at the least take character cues from comic characters similar to him,or make him as compelling as Fisk and Frank Castle.This show needs something to make it compeling with all the competition is has,At this point they need to either need to finally destroy the city for good,have Ollie for mayor or Crib batman stories again to get this show back on its pedestal

  24. I can’t believe anyone is this ridiculous. For the record, I don’t care who Oliver ends up with. I am a fan of the comics books but I didn’t like Laurel and didn’t want them together. They botched that one from season 1 and I’m fine with doing away with it. I don’t believe they need to militantly stick to the comics either, I’m okay with new imaginings of existing characters. With all that said Olicity has been nothing short of a disaster. I wouldn’t even care if they hadn’t spent 2 seasons destroying her character. She’s a complete mess. She has no real personality and is consistently treated as if she cannot do anything wrong while she treats Oliver like shit. Starting with her relationship with Palmer she became a plot device and a love interest, nothing more. She was handed Palmer Tech for no real reason, after she all but helped him steal it from Oliver. In the comics Felicity starts her own software company from the ground up, that would’ve been much more interesting and good for her character. She literally screwed her way into becoming a CEO. Then she is with Oliver, lies about helping the team, drags him back to star city because she’s bored, and hates him for who he is. Defends Lance’s lies to her mom (and don’t get me started on the mess that shallow character is) then dumps Oliver for the same thing she just got done justifying. Then the one chance she had a character development was written out with a little chip in her spine. And that’s not even including all the childish bullsh!t she pulls every week, add that to her lack of purpose and they might as well just kill her off at this point. I honestly did like her for a while but that ship has sailed. I’m sure Emily Bett Rickards is an amazing person, it’s not her fault the writing is targeted to 12 year old fan-girls with 0 understanding of adult relationships and development. For once, twilight is a better love story. I’m honestly sad for these once-good characters, they’re already dead.

      1. I’m a woman dumbass.

      2. You’re an idiot

      3. Except you are. You called me a mysogynist. Even though you have no evidence of that, but the real reason is because you cannot defend the character in its current imagining or rebut any point I made. So you jumped out the gate with a personal attack when what you should have said, was nothing at all.

      4. I’m a woman dumbass.

      5. Demanding better of female lead characters is not mysogynistic anyway. I want them to be real, believable, and stand on their own merits and interests. Felicity is a tool and their relationship is nothing more than pandering.

      6. No, you’re right. Demanding better of female lead characters is not misogynistic. Suggesting Felicity screwed her way into becoming CEO, though, is cutting it close.

      7. Oh I’m sorry, she slept with Ray once and now she’s a CEO. Is that better? Oh wait that’s the same thing and is exactly what happened. If you go read what I wrote I mentioned I would’ve loved to see her get there on merit (because her character in the comics and originally in the show had merit) and on her own accomplishments. You’re right, what a monster.

      8. If you don’t understand how suggesting that she’s the CEO because she slept with Ray and not because of her education or her intelligence is misogynistic, then I don’t know what else I can say. It’s been a pleasure talking to you, but I think I’m going to stop.

      9. She is not the CEO because of her education and intelligence. She’s the CEO because she slept with Ray. I have not once claimed she isn’t capable of holding that position or that she wasn’t smart enough to do so. But those things are not what got her that position, sleeping with Ray did.

      10. WTF is this? Felicity became CEO because Ray knew she was capable after working with her for a year as VP. It’s not that difficult. But anything to hate on Felicity, right?
        Yikes. I’m worried for you. You’re delusional.

      11. I don’t even hate Felicity, I initially liked her character quite a bit. The writers have ruined her character over the last two seasons and I don’t believe they can salvage it at this point. And ray left her the company after he slept with her. Those are the facts. Go re-watch if you’d like. And it was not an appropriate way to further what is supposed to be an intelligent characters career. What they should have done is had her start her own company instead of working at Best Buy or whatever. It would’ve been character building, interesting, would’ve displayed her talents with her pants on and had the added bonus of being true to the comics. Additionally the company was originally Oliver’s. Just one more shitty female constantly needing saving and getting everything from the men in her life. From a show that used to be one of the best for female leads.

      12. Ray leaving Felicity the company after he slept with her doesn’t mean the two are linked. Yes they had a relationship but that wasn’t why she got the job. Ray wanted the company left in capable hands just in case something bad happened. People are more than capable of separating romantic relationships from their professional lives.
        You’re not exactly putting Ray in a good light here either. According to you, Ray gave Felicity a company as a gift and a thank you for a good lay? Puhlease.
        And yes, the company once belonged to Oliver but he was the idiot who lost it in the first place. He was the one who signed it away to Isabel. What does that have to do with Felicity? NOTHING.
        And for someone who claims they don’t hate Felicity, you have a shitty way of showing it.

      13. Felicity would never have gotten the company had it not been for the “relationship” she had with Ray, suggesting otherwise is fucking laughable. If Ray’s fiancé wasn’t dead, it would’ve been her who got the company. Felicity happened to be his current lay when he died. He had no known heirs. She didn’t get it because of her intelligence, it is directly related to their relationship. You can try to spin it any way you like, still won’t be correct or true.
        It has to do with Felicity because the writers were too lazy to give her her own career instead of handing her Oliver’s.
        The lazy writing of her character should offend all of us, it’s pathetic, and disrespectful of the characters intelligence and the source material.

      14. LOL. This is going round in circles so this shall be my last comment to you.
        Ray’s fiancé was dead so bringing that into the equation is pointless and irrelevant. Even if Felicity and Ray hadn’t been together, he still would have signed over the company to her because she’s educated and intelligent and was successful as Vice President. The End. No spinning necessary. You can believe whatever you want, still won’t be correct or true either.
        Also source material? Felicity Smoak in the comics is completely different from the show. It’s pointless trying to link either of them. Anyway I’m done. Have fun festering in your pointless hate! 😀

      15. You clearly can’t read. Felicity in the comics has her own software company that she started from the ground up. Which I’ve now suggested upwards of 5 times. That would be source material.
        Ray’s fiancé has to do with it because, as I said, if she was alive she would the CEO now, pure circumstance, not intelligence or skill.
        You don’t see a problem because, like the author and most of the commenters, you’re a teen girl (or have the mind of one) and like your soap operas. Next time, keep them away from comics.

      16. Well, seeing as Smoak Technologies appeared in Legends, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re heading for a software company at some point. It’s only Season 4, there’s plenty of time to get there.
        Finally, ah, I love it when people run out of arguments. I can always tell because they end in calling names and dismissing them as teenage girls who like soap operas. Congratulations on being totally predictable. You should win a prize.
        PS: Perhaps your opinion would be celebrated over at reddit. DC Comics dissociated itself with that site because it was so disgusting and sexist and misogynistic but I think you’d fit it really well there. Just an idea for you to ponder. Bye now Nyssa! Oh, if you only were as cool as your namesake. I guess we’ll never know. 🙁

      17. Once again: it is not in any way misogynistic to expect female characters to be believable and independent. Quite the opposite in fact.
        Renaming Palmer Tech does not make it something she built, just gives it a new name.
        I have no idea what Reddit has to do with anything. That was off the wall.
        I haven’t run out of anything, you haven’t listened.
        I’m a huge DC fan, that’s why I demand better of the characters they put out there, especially female leads. In the comic community DC is the leader when it comes to women of power, as heroes, and strong characters. Which is why is offensive and disappointing to see them backpedal so severely with her character. If you cared you would demand better as well. The CW has a million other stories of teenage angst love stories, go watch those if you want, but don’t pretend arrow should be like that.

      18. Well, seeing as Smoak Technologies appeared in Legends, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re heading for a software company at some point. It’s only Season 4, there’s plenty of time to get there.
        Finally, ah, I love it when people run out of arguments. I can always tell because they end in calling names and dismissing them as teenage girls who like soap operas. Congratulations on being totally predictable. You should win a prize.
        PS: Perhaps your opinion would be celebrated over at reddit. DC Comics dissociated itself with that site because it was so disgusting and sexist and misogynistic but I think you’d fit it really well there. Just an idea for you to ponder. Bye now Nyssa! Oh, if you only were as cool as your namesake. I guess we’ll never know. 🙁

      19. You clearly can’t read. Felicity in the comics has her own software company that she started from the ground up. Which I’ve now suggested upwards of 5 times. That would be source material.
        Ray’s fiancé has to do with it because, as I said, if she was alive she would the CEO now, pure circumstance, not intelligence or skill.
        You don’t see a problem because, like the author and most of the commenters, you’re a teen girl (or have the mind of one) and like your soap operas. Next time, keep them away from comics.

      20. LOL. This is going round in circles so this shall be my last comment to you.
        Ray’s fiancé was dead so bringing that into the equation is pointless and irrelevant. Even if Felicity and Ray hadn’t been together, he still would have signed over the company to her because she’s educated and intelligent and was successful as Vice President. The End. No spinning necessary. You can believe whatever you want, still won’t be correct or true either.
        Also source material? Felicity Smoak in the comics is completely different from the show. It’s pointless trying to link either of them. Anyway I’m done. Have fun festering in your pointless hate! 😀

      21. Felicity would never have gotten the company had it not been for the “relationship” she had with Ray, suggesting otherwise is fucking laughable. If Ray’s fiancé wasn’t dead, it would’ve been her who got the company. Felicity happened to be his current lay when he died. He had no known heirs. She didn’t get it because of her intelligence, it is directly related to their relationship. You can try to spin it any way you like, still won’t be correct or true.
        It has to do with Felicity because the writers were too lazy to give her her own career instead of handing her Oliver’s.
        The lazy writing of her character should offend all of us, it’s pathetic, and disrespectful of the characters intelligence and the source material.

      22. With the Ray thing you’ve just raised another example of characters written like idiots to help further the Olicity agenda. Why would he sign away a multi-billion conglomerate to someone who has absolutely zero experience of running one.

      23. Because Felicity is such a brave woman. Lol same reason every character kisses her ass and the show is all about her. She’s a Mary Sue. People eat that garbage up.
        It makes no damn sense. Being good with software is not management experience. I say this because I do work in management. The qualifications would have made more sense if she had started her own company because she would be learning these things while growing her business.
        Maybe the sex really was billion dollar company good though? Lol

      24. Because Felicity is such a brave woman. Lol same reason every character kisses her ass and the show is all about her. She’s a Mary Sue. People eat that garbage up.
        It makes no damn sense. Being good with software is not management experience. I say this because I do work in management. The qualifications would have made more sense if she had started her own company because she would be learning these things while growing her business.
        Maybe the sex really was billion dollar company good though? Lol

      25. Because Felicity is literally the only character who can believably run a company? She’s MIT educated and incredibly intelligent. She obviously proved herself while she was VP. And obviously the writers wanted to keep the company in the show for later, otherwise they would have written it out completely. It’s called logic!

      26. Try applying for a CEO role when you only have intelligence and no experience. Your CV would be binned instantly. Any board room worth their weight in salt would have booted her out of office in a vote of no confidence.

      27. Oh sorry, I thought the year she spent as Vice President would have looked pretty good on her CV. And if you’d been watching the show properly, you’d know that the board were hesitant to keep her on because of her lack of experience but she proved her worth by hiring Curtis. The end.

      28. That raises another point. She hired Curtis and blatantly lied to the board that they had something. It was then all on him (who is a character I actually like) to save the company.
        So, she did… what?
        That’s right. She jeopardised the entire company because she was unwilling to make the hard decisions that are expected of any struggling business.

      29. That raises another point. She hired Curtis and blatantly lied to the board that they had something. It was then all on him (who is a character I actually like) to save the company.
        So, she did… what?
        That’s right. She jeopardised the entire company because she was unwilling to make the hard decisions that are expected of any struggling business.

      30. Oh sorry, I thought the year she spent as Vice President would have looked pretty good on her CV. And if you’d been watching the show properly, you’d know that the board were hesitant to keep her on because of her lack of experience but she proved her worth by hiring Curtis. The end.

      31. Try applying for a CEO role when you only have intelligence and no experience. Your CV would be binned instantly. Any board room worth their weight in salt would have booted her out of office in a vote of no confidence.

      32. Because Felicity is literally the only character who can believably run a company? She’s MIT educated and incredibly intelligent. She obviously proved herself while she was VP. And obviously the writers wanted to keep the company in the show for later, otherwise they would have written it out completely. It’s called logic!

      33. With the Ray thing you’ve just raised another example of characters written like idiots to help further the Olicity agenda. Why would he sign away a multi-billion conglomerate to someone who has absolutely zero experience of running one.

      34. I don’t even hate Felicity, I initially liked her character quite a bit. The writers have ruined her character over the last two seasons and I don’t believe they can salvage it at this point. And ray left her the company after he slept with her. Those are the facts. Go re-watch if you’d like. And it was not an appropriate way to further what is supposed to be an intelligent characters career. What they should have done is had her start her own company instead of working at Best Buy or whatever. It would’ve been character building, interesting, would’ve displayed her talents with her pants on and had the added bonus of being true to the comics. Additionally the company was originally Oliver’s. Just one more shitty female constantly needing saving and getting everything from the men in her life. From a show that used to be one of the best for female leads.

      35. WTF is this? Felicity became CEO because Ray knew she was capable after working with her for a year as VP. It’s not that difficult. But anything to hate on Felicity, right?
        Yikes. I’m worried for you. You’re delusional.

      36. And remember: they had to blow him up and then shove him onto a time travel adventure (never to be seen again). So that’s Felicity and Oliver’s main love rival booted off the show. A cynical person would say there is a pattern there.

      37. And remember: they had to blow him up and then shove him onto a time travel adventure (never to be seen again). So that’s Felicity and Oliver’s main love rival booted off the show. A cynical person would say there is a pattern there.

      38. Haha this is so true. Don’t fall in love with Oliver or Felicity! It’s the fastest way to unemployment

      39. Haha this is so true. Don’t fall in love with Oliver or Felicity! It’s the fastest way to unemployment

      40. You do realise that Ray was always intended for a spin-off, right? They bought him on Arrow specifically to introduce his character before sending him off to another show. Initially it was going to be about The Atom but Ray wasn’t popular enough so they enlisted other characters. It’s not that difficult to find this out.

      41. I understand he was never going to stick around. I just think it is indicative of a deeper problem within the writing room when every character involved with Olicity in a romantic sense either gets killed or permanently removed from the show. For example: Laurel, Ray, and Sara are now all gone.
        Laurel is arguably the biggest one of the bunch, and the most aggravating given that she could’ve easily had a bigger role if she wasn’t intentionally sidelined in favour of more melodramatic bullshit from Felicity and Oliver.

      42. LOL. No. Ray was always introduced as a road block to Olicity. He was one third of the stupid love triangle in Season 3. He was always going to leave for the spin off.
        Sara was killed to motivate Laurel’s rise to Black Canary. Blame Laurel for that one. Laurel always seemed to need death as a motivator.
        Laurel was killed because they had no idea what to do with her character and they wanted a shock value death. Olicity had nothing to do with it. You do realise that Olicity were a thing on the show while Laurel was still alive, right? They had them in a very serious relationship and Laurel was there the whole time. I’d understand your claims if they could only do Olicity once Laurel was dead but alas, you’re wrong. Sorry about that! 😀

      43. Of course I’m wrong. I’m always wrong when it comes to anything that challenges the Olicity status quo, right?
        I could respond to your points but you and the writers live in your own Olicity centric echo chamber.

      44. That’s all you have to say? Dismissing me as an Olicity fangirl? No intelligent rebuttal? I’m displeased. You’ve clearly nothing better to say. Oh well.

      45. There is no intelligent discussion because you can’t perceive the weaknesses with the writing due to your own bias.

      46. I see plenty of weakness. I said in a huge comment earlier on this very article that I don’t think they’ve always written Olicity well. I can see the reliance on melodrama, even though I think the melodrama would happen regardless of who Oliver was in a relationship with. I have plenty of opinions and I can see when the show has poor writing. But I also see when people blame Olicity for dumb ass reasons that make no sense.

      47. Laurel has suffered precisely because they pushed her into irrelevancy by her not being an option for Oliver due to the fandom’s obsession with the Olicity pairing. Now, to their credit they pushed her along a little with the Wildcat stuff (which could’ve gone somewhere) but after he disappeared (due to the actor being cast elsewhere – kind of happens when you don’t lock him down with a long-term story arc) she was no longer defined by a relationship to a man. And a woman without a man (romantic or otherwise) serves no purpose (Thea had Roy and then the family stuff with psycho dad Malcolm, Felicity has Roy and Oliver, Sara had Oliver – yes I know she’s bisexual, and even Nyssa had Oliver – despite being gay, Felicity’s mother has daddy Lance, and even Isabel Rochev had Oliver and his dad! In fact her entire modus operandi was due to her anger towards Oliver’s dad).
        But hey, Sara and Nyssa are guest stars so they can come and go. But Laurel? God forbid they devote time away from writing preposterous Olicity melodrama to give her a better story arc that’s integrated in with the main story.
        Even Quentin Lance stays on the show and at this point I have no idea what purpose he has. But he has no chance of interferring with Olicity, so I guess he stays.

      48. I’m sorry, did you just write “A woman without a man (romantic or otherwise) serves no purpose”? Because, wow. I mean, I just want to make sure you realize what you typed.

      49. Thanks for taking it out of context. But yes, it’s a criticism of the show not what i think of real world women (who are infinitely more complex than the 2 dimensional depictions found on this show).
        In fact I explicitly gave examples of it happening in the show, so I don’t think you actually realised what I typed.

      50. There is no intelligent discussion because you can’t perceive the weaknesses with the writing due to your own bias.

      51. That’s all you have to say? Dismissing me as an Olicity fangirl? No intelligent rebuttal? I’m displeased. You’ve clearly nothing better to say. Oh well.

      52. Of course I’m wrong. I’m always wrong when it comes to anything that challenges the Olicity status quo, right?
        I could respond to your points but you and the writers live in your own Olicity centric echo chamber.

      53. LOL. No. Ray was always introduced as a road block to Olicity. He was one third of the stupid love triangle in Season 3. He was always going to leave for the spin off.
        Sara was killed to motivate Laurel’s rise to Black Canary. Blame Laurel for that one. Laurel always seemed to need death as a motivator.
        Laurel was killed because they had no idea what to do with her character and they wanted a shock value death. Olicity had nothing to do with it. You do realise that Olicity were a thing on the show while Laurel was still alive, right? They had them in a very serious relationship and Laurel was there the whole time. I’d understand your claims if they could only do Olicity once Laurel was dead but alas, you’re wrong. Sorry about that! 😀

      54. I understand he was never going to stick around. I just think it is indicative of a deeper problem within the writing room when every character involved with Olicity in a romantic sense either gets killed or permanently removed from the show. For example: Laurel, Ray, and Sara are now all gone.
        Laurel is arguably the biggest one of the bunch, and the most aggravating given that she could’ve easily had a bigger role if she wasn’t intentionally sidelined in favour of more melodramatic bullshit from Felicity and Oliver.

  25. I love it when you kick ass, your so spot on

  26. I actually resent the insinuation that people who care about the mythos of the Green Arrow don’t therefore care about “the man”. Oh we do. We just don’t care for poor writing and characterisation. For instance in The Flash they have plenty of relationship drama and to be quite honest I don’t care about whether he gets together with Iris West or not, I just enjoy the journey. Simply because it is written and acted well. The Arrow has become a show that exists solely to appease a specific group of fans, as a result the writing has been atrocious.

  27. People don’t dislike Felicity. They dislike that Arrow has become a show that depicts their relationship front and center with the actual comic book stuff as being secondary. As a result the writing has become melodramatic in a way that would make daytime soap operas jealous. The fixation on their relationship has also resulted in other characters being sidelined to the point where they had to kill off the Black Canary (in a show about the Green Arrow! Hilarious… and sad) because they didn’t know what to do with her. The reality is that they could do plenty with the character… just not in this show. Because the central character of this show isn’t the Green Arrow anymore. Also, please see The Flash if you want to see a comic book show done right.

  28. People don’t dislike Felicity. They dislike that Arrow has become a show that depicts their relationship front and center with the actual comic book stuff as being secondary. As a result the writing has become melodramatic in a way that would make daytime soap operas jealous. The fixation on their relationship has also resulted in other characters being sidelined to the point where they had to kill off the Black Canary (in a show about the Green Arrow! Hilarious… and sad) because they didn’t know what to do with her. The reality is that they could do plenty with the character… just not in this show. Because the central character of this show isn’t the Green Arrow anymore. Also, please see The Flash if you want to see a comic book show done right.

  29. I strongly disagree, look at shows like Daredevil or Jessica Jones, which can retain human grounded characters with brilliant arcs, without romantic involvement. One of the problems with the show is that it has lost its grounding, the only characters that isn’t on team arrow is Felicity’s Mother.
    Felicity has become the core of the show a subtly nudged Oliver to second fiddle and Laurel into a bloody fridge. Look at any of the new characters how many of them connect directly to Felicity? The vast majority, certainly, look at Calculator, Ray, Curtis, Donna, ect. I couldn’t give less of a shit about Oliver’s romantic life, if I wanted to watch that I’d find myself a Rom-Com. I signed up for a grounded superhero about a badass vigilante, not the tragic tale of Felicity Smoak.
    Felicity is barely Felicity anymore anyway. Look at her in the last couple of episodes compared to season 2, she’s become a mess of negative emotion, previously she was the comic relief, now we get that from the likes of Diggle, remember diggle? or Laurel (The female lead?) or Thea? No? That’s because they are literally background dressing, they don’t do anything because god forbid they take screen time from supreme leader smoak. Oliver isn’t Oliver, when was the last time he fired an Arrow?
    I enjoyed last nights episode, with the exception of the last ten minutes, It proved that Felicity doesn’t serve a purpose in the narrative, anything she might of done any emotional support she would have provided, just happened naturally with other characters. The only purpose Felicity serves within the show is to pander to fangirls and Marc Guggenheim’s Ego.

  30. I strongly disagree, look at shows like Daredevil or Jessica Jones, which can retain human grounded characters with brilliant arcs, without romantic involvement. One of the problems with the show is that it has lost its grounding, the only characters that isn’t on team arrow is Felicity’s Mother.
    Felicity has become the core of the show a subtly nudged Oliver to second fiddle and Laurel into a bloody fridge. Look at any of the new characters how many of them connect directly to Felicity? The vast majority, certainly, look at Calculator, Ray, Curtis, Donna, ect. I couldn’t give less of a shit about Oliver’s romantic life, if I wanted to watch that I’d find myself a Rom-Com. I signed up for a grounded superhero about a badass vigilante, not the tragic tale of Felicity Smoak.
    Felicity is barely Felicity anymore anyway. Look at her in the last couple of episodes compared to season 2, she’s become a mess of negative emotion, previously she was the comic relief, now we get that from the likes of Diggle, remember diggle? or Laurel (The female lead?) or Thea? No? That’s because they are literally background dressing, they don’t do anything because god forbid they take screen time from supreme leader smoak. Oliver isn’t Oliver, when was the last time he fired an Arrow?
    I enjoyed last nights episode, with the exception of the last ten minutes, It proved that Felicity doesn’t serve a purpose in the narrative, anything she might of done any emotional support she would have provided, just happened naturally with other characters. The only purpose Felicity serves within the show is to pander to fangirls and Marc Guggenheim’s Ego.

    1. This is exactly the problem. Felicity started off as an endearing character and a fairly useful member of the team. Over the past couple of seasons she has evolved into a sounding board for fan girls. It has resulted in backslides for all of the main characters (with perhaps, the exception of Digg).
      Felicity herself is an inconsistent, overly-emotional mess with no actual defining traits. If we’re being honest, the actress doesn’t really have the range for overly-emotional scenes. This fact has been evident since season 1 so I don’t blame Emily Bett for that or for the direction the show is taking, that blame lies with the writers.
      As a result of Oliver being reduced to a background character he has very little dynamic to his character and few useful storylines. I mean, he’s not even employed in his real life anymore. We’re supposed to believe his trust fund is helping or something? How is he keeping Digg employed? Digg has a family, I imagine a paycheck would be nice. None of that is address because both Oliver and Diggle are extras.
      As to the Laurel thing though, she really wasn’t a very good character either. Which is a combination of writing, lack of chemistry between the actors, and Katie Cassidy’s inability to play the role in a way the fans could get behind. I like the comics and I want Black Canary in the show but Laurel just wasn’t cut out for it. Felicity however, is not a good alternative.

    2. This is exactly the problem. Felicity started off as an endearing character and a fairly useful member of the team. Over the past couple of seasons she has evolved into a sounding board for fan girls. It has resulted in backslides for all of the main characters (with perhaps, the exception of Digg).
      Felicity herself is an inconsistent, overly-emotional mess with no actual defining traits. If we’re being honest, the actress doesn’t really have the range for overly-emotional scenes. This fact has been evident since season 1 so I don’t blame Emily Bett for that or for the direction the show is taking, that blame lies with the writers.
      As a result of Oliver being reduced to a background character he has very little dynamic to his character and few useful storylines. I mean, he’s not even employed in his real life anymore. We’re supposed to believe his trust fund is helping or something? How is he keeping Digg employed? Digg has a family, I imagine a paycheck would be nice. None of that is address because both Oliver and Diggle are extras.
      As to the Laurel thing though, she really wasn’t a very good character either. Which is a combination of writing, lack of chemistry between the actors, and Katie Cassidy’s inability to play the role in a way the fans could get behind. I like the comics and I want Black Canary in the show but Laurel just wasn’t cut out for it. Felicity however, is not a good alternative.

    3. “I strongly disagree, look at shows like Daredevil or Jessica Jones, which can retain human grounded characters with brilliant arcs, without romantic involvement. One of the problems with the show is that it has lost its grounding, the only characters that isn’t on team arrow is Felicity’s Mother.”
      I think Daredevil and Jessica Jones are aiming for a different type of drama than the Berlanti TV landscape. Comparisons like this always feel very superficial. In its second season Arrow was clearly showed it was evolving into a more outlandish world.
      “Felicity is barely Felicity anymore anyway. Look at her in the last couple of episodes compared to season 2, she’s become a mess of negative emotion, previously she was the comic relief,”
      To you, Felicity is barely Felicity because the writers have dared to give her more than one personality trait. She’s still been the source of the majority of the humor this season. As far as I can tell, they still give the majority of the best lines and scene stealing moments. There are negative things happening. When bad things happen a character doesn’t stop being a character because they have appropriate emotional responses to those situations. Unless, of course, you have a hyper reductive(dare I say sexist) view of what makes a character likable. Felicity isn’t suppose to be the the show’s resident class clown, she’s one of the main characters. Of course one of the main characters is going to have full emotional arcs and go through different phases.
      “now we get that from the likes of Diggle, remember diggle? or Laurel (The female lead?) or Thea? No? That’s because they are literally background dressing, they don’t do anything because god forbid they take screen time from supreme leader smoak.
      Diggle and Thea have both gotten plenty of meaty material this season. Calling Laurel the female lead just makes it seem like you’re not paying attention. She hasn’t been the female lead in a long time. The only reason for this is because she’s a terrible character. Sara Lance was a better Black Canary (oh how I miss thee) and Felicity is a better female lead/romantic partner.
      “Oliver isn’t Oliver, when was the last time he fired an Arrow?”
      He fired a pretty killer one last episode.
      “I enjoyed last nights episode, with the exception of the last ten minutes, It proved that Felicity doesn’t serve a purpose in the narrative, anything she might of done any emotional support she would have provided, just happened naturally with other characters. The only purpose Felicity serves within the show is to pander to fangirls and Marc Guggenheim’s Ego.”
      Ah yes, those evil fangirls again. Thankfully there are brave souls like you to always stand up to them.
      Look, like it or not, the show has made it very clear that Felicity is a major part of Oliver’s redemption. Arrow has always been a redemption story for Oliver Queen. The only thing that’s changed (besides a more outlandish world) is that the writers realized that Laurel Lance was an awful candidate for the love interest position in this redemption story and that Felicity was the more natural choice. Personally, that’s fine by me because I despise the Laurel version of Black Canary and feel like she’s always been a major detriment to the show. I gave up on this series giving me comic Dinah/Ollie a long time ago, and have always found Felicity enjoyable enough. Of course Oliver’s love interest will get lots of screen time, and I’m happy so long as it’s not Laurel.

  31. What the hell is this garbage? Talk about fiddling while Rome burns.

  32. I find it hilarious this article has really hit so many nerves. How dare Olicity be liked when it isn’t it the comics! How dare a comic character die! LMAO keep it up. All I hear is buzz buzz buzz! 😀

  33. First I want to say to the writer good job for expressing your opinion tv is subjective and it affects people in different ways and any vile comments towards you aren’t warranted. I do however have to disagree about Olicity. What you said in your article is great but there is a difference between concept and execution. The primary reason Olicity gets trashed by some viewers is because the amount of time on Olicity takes away from time used to either further the development of other characters or the main storyline. In S4 we still have no idea what is Darhk’s plan despite being introduced to him in the very first episode. Constantly Darhk will pop up in an episode do something, fail then get away. This would be fine if we knew what he was planning but we don’t so there is no sense of dread or worry about Darhk because Team Arrow and us as an audience has no idea what he is doing. Now I am a comic book guy but I don’t really care about being “truthful” to the source material because like you said they’re totally different things. However if you are going to change the source material there has to be a reason. I do not mind romance in tv IF it gives us a clearer understanding about who these characters are and what motivates them. All Olicity has done in the show has turned Oliver from a man willing to stand up for himself to a man who won’t even stand up for himself in front of Felicity. Olicity has been both detrimental to Oliver AND Felicity as characters. Felicity despite Oliver dying in S3 NEVER left the team because she knew it was important to her. Yet in order to create “drama” the writers not only break up Olicity in such a contrived way (we as an audience assume that Felicity is 100% right?? really?) and then go against her whole character by leaving Team Arrow simply because she couldn’t handle being near Oliver? Olicity romance is a fantasy anytime they get into trouble as a couple they never try to work it out together it’s always Felicity that is the right one and Oliver is in the wrong. People do like romance. My favorite show is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That has plenty of romance but it works. Why? Because the romance in the show is at the core of the show (about a teenage girl and the troubles of growing up). Olicity is NOT the core of Arrow beause Olicity doesn’t inform the viewer more about Oliver and Felicity. Why does Felicity love Oliver? Why does Oliver love Felicity? Oliver constantly jumps between wanting to be happy and wanting to be alone. There’s no continuous character arc it’s all focused on a relationship that goes back and forth for the sake of “drama”. And I have nothing against the actors or characters. This is on the writers. By focusing too much on Olicity the writers fail to utilize the cast. Why can’t Felicity and Diggle have mutliple conversations in an episode? Why didn’t Felicity and Laurel have more conversations? What about Diggle and Thea talking? The focus on Olicity takes away some GREAT character interactions from other characters because it only revolves specifically around Felicity’s support group. Why does Donna have more of an arc than Laurel this season? Because she is part of Felicity’s support group stemming from the focus on Olicity. Olicity should be in the background like it was in the first half of S4 which guess what? I really liked!

  34. First I want to say to the writer good job for expressing your opinion tv is subjective and it affects people in different ways and any vile comments towards you aren’t warranted. I do however have to disagree about Olicity. What you said in your article is great but there is a difference between concept and execution. The primary reason Olicity gets trashed by some viewers is because the amount of time on Olicity takes away from time used to either further the development of other characters or the main storyline. In S4 we still have no idea what is Darhk’s plan despite being introduced to him in the very first episode. Constantly Darhk will pop up in an episode do something, fail then get away. This would be fine if we knew what he was planning but we don’t so there is no sense of dread or worry about Darhk because Team Arrow and us as an audience has no idea what he is doing. Now I am a comic book guy but I don’t really care about being “truthful” to the source material because like you said they’re totally different things. However if you are going to change the source material there has to be a reason. I do not mind romance in tv IF it gives us a clearer understanding about who these characters are and what motivates them. All Olicity has done in the show has turned Oliver from a man willing to stand up for himself to a man who won’t even stand up for himself in front of Felicity. Olicity has been both detrimental to Oliver AND Felicity as characters. Felicity despite Oliver dying in S3 NEVER left the team because she knew it was important to her. Yet in order to create “drama” the writers not only break up Olicity in such a contrived way (we as an audience assume that Felicity is 100% right?? really?) and then go against her whole character by leaving Team Arrow simply because she couldn’t handle being near Oliver? Olicity romance is a fantasy anytime they get into trouble as a couple they never try to work it out together it’s always Felicity that is the right one and Oliver is in the wrong. People do like romance. My favorite show is Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That has plenty of romance but it works. Why? Because the romance in the show is at the core of the show (about a teenage girl and the troubles of growing up). Olicity is NOT the core of Arrow beause Olicity doesn’t inform the viewer more about Oliver and Felicity. Why does Felicity love Oliver? Why does Oliver love Felicity? Oliver constantly jumps between wanting to be happy and wanting to be alone. There’s no continuous character arc it’s all focused on a relationship that goes back and forth for the sake of “drama”. And I have nothing against the actors or characters. This is on the writers. By focusing too much on Olicity the writers fail to utilize the cast. Why can’t Felicity and Diggle have mutliple conversations in an episode? Why didn’t Felicity and Laurel have more conversations? What about Diggle and Thea talking? The focus on Olicity takes away some GREAT character interactions from other characters because it only revolves specifically around Felicity’s support group. Why does Donna have more of an arc than Laurel this season? Because she is part of Felicity’s support