Every week, Fangirlish writers will be discussing new episodes of Arrow and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and speculation about the hour’s hot topics in a little something we like to call Fangirlish Roundtables.
Today, we’re breaking down episode 4×21 of Arrow, “Monument Point,” where we discuss Original Team Arrow leading the charge, the Felicity-Noah dynamic, and the repercussions of Havenrock.
What were your overall thoughts on “Monument Point?”
ALYSSA
Arrow has really delivered with these last two episodes as it nears the end of what’s been a solid season regardless of certain baby mama drama. I made the comparison last week and it continues to remain a point of conversation, but the end of this season reminds me a lot of the end of season two in how it’s bringing this high stakes that’s been sorely lacking. “Monument Point” was solid all around. It reminded me just how amazing Arrow can be when it comes to stunts because the action sequences in this episode – minus the Thea/Anarky fight – were phenomenal all around. Not to mention a heavy focus on Original Team Arrow as they each contributed something unique to this episode, which was reminiscent of season two. Everything from the action to the acting to the dynamics made this a fantastic episode. “Monument Point” served as the jumping off point as Arrow has been sent spiraling into nuclear catastrophe.
LIZZIE
Arrow has been on point the last few episodes. It can be said that this show always picks up near the end of the season, yes, but this is not just that, this is Arrow at its best, with stunning action sequences that allow the characters to be badasses, entertaining character moments that don’t overshadow the plot, and a team so in sync that, sometimes, they don’t even need to speak. This is what I signed up for. The possibility of this is what kept me watching all year. I love it.
LYRA
It was a good setup to the angst/action we’re definitely going to experience in the season finale. They reminded us what worked, what didn’t, and what we could use more of. It’s a nifty trick that writers use before they plunge us into an episode that has us on the edge of our seats, crying, and screaming at the TV, “WHY!” Yeah, it’ll be fine.
This episode saw a heavy emphasis on Original Team Arrow leading the charge as they fought to thwart Damien Darhk’s nuclear plans. What were your thoughts on that?
ALYSSA
God I’ve missed this. The greatest thing to ever happen to Arrow was the dynamic of Original Team Arrow. They have pure magic with Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity, and it’s easy to see how they’ve always been the heart of this show. Because when it comes to Original Team Arrow it’s about the emotional stakes as much as the high stakes presented by Damien Darhk. In comparing the end of this season to season two one of those similarities is the focus on those three characters and how they work together to stop this big bad. It also freed up Oliver and Diggle to return to the action that they were accustomed to in season two: taking on multiple guys at once instead of struggling taking on one in order to accommodate the presence of additional fighters. Everything just seems to function smoothly and effortlessly with these three. And I can’t wait to see more of it in these last two episodes of the season.
LIZZIE
Give it to me. All of it. in fact, give me this every episode for the rest of the season (series) and I will probably not complain. Ever. These three are the reason why this show hooked me, and though the team has necessarily changed in the past few years, and though I like most of the new additions to the team, I’m glad we had an episode to focus on Diggle and Oliver, who are more brothers than Andy and John were at the end, and on Diggle and Felicity, even Oliver and Felicity, and how they are in the lair, outside of their romantic relationship. Because these people are a team. And one that works.
LYRA
It felt like coming home. All of them have had so much happening in their lives that I think they’ve forgotten how it all started. It also felt like they came full circle and were able to get over some of the hurt of the past. Diggle can look Oliver in the eye without wanting to punch him for what he did to Lyla. Felicity can work with Oliver doing something she never thought she’d do again. (You both weren’t fooling anyone with this.) And Oliver can stop spiralling into a pity party of one when things go wrong. They’ve changed for the better at their own pace and are ready to come back together. OTA all the way.
Team Arrow had to reach out to Felicity’s father, Noah Kuttler, in order to help bring a stop to Rubicon. What were your thoughts on Felicity and Noah’s relationship? Do you think Noah can be redeemed, and that he can redeem his relationship with his daughter?
ALYSSA
I enjoyed this dynamic much more than I anticipated. Perhaps that was in part because of the combination of humor and seriousness of the situation. Emily Bett Rickards and Tom Amandes had a natural chemistry that lit up the screen, and those brief moments of humor intermittent of the serious nature of the episode really grounded the episode. Something I’m enjoying about their dynamic is the question of redemption: can Noah be redeemed? Is Felicity willing to trust him after everything he’s done – i.e. abandoning her as a child and then coming back into her life and stealing from her? Better yet, is Felicity willing to take a chance on trusting him when she watched her friend Diggle do the same with his brother only to have dire consequences?
The question of redemption is always does the person want to be redeemed? And now, after the Andy Diggle of it all, are they genuine? Noah insists that he genuinely wants to make amends with his daughter. That while he might’ve done some terrible things, he wants to be a part of her life. But one problem he believes is that Felicity can’t help but see just the criminal side of him and not the father side. But truth be told, the father side of him wasn’t that great either. He abandoned her and her mother when she was young, and he only turned up this year when he saw an opportunity to take advantage of his daughter. But with that said, a part of me believes that Noah wants to make amends with Felicity. I believe he loves her, but earning that trust is more than just words, as Oliver is learning right now. It’s about actions; it’s about love; it’s about trust. I can’t wait to see more from Felicity and Noah, and I truly hope that they can work this out for Felicity’s sake. She deserves to have two good parents.
LIZZIE
I don’t think it matters at this point, because it was more important to get his help than to consider if he can be redeemed. However, on the long run, I think he’s more the type to be redeemed than Andy Diggle ever was, yes. That’s mostly because, despite all his mistakes, Kuttler is 100% himself, and that’s not something we could say for Andy. Also, I think it’s because, misguided or not, he really does have some serious self-doubt issues, and he might have thought not being around was the best for his family, in the long run. Of course, he doesn’t seem to really understand the pain he caused, so that’s something that needs to be addressed first, if there’s ever going to be a chance to fix the relationship.
LYRA
The relationship between Felicity and Noah is non-existent with a dab of “you’re blood, so technically I have to save you.” Right now I see Noah as an opportunist who doesn’t want his blood line to end. Plus he could one day benefit from Felicity’s trust so why not? As for Felicity she’s a survivor who’s willing to put aside her disdain for the people of Star City. (A strength even I don’t know if I’d be able to handle.)
Their relationship can only be salvaged if he comes forward and explains himself to Felicity and Donna. Why did he leave? Why did he stay away? What has he been doing all this time? You can only start new, if you accept the wrongs of your past so you can close them off. Then you can start the new chapter of your lives together.
While Felicity and her father were able to stop most of the nukes that Rubicon had deployed, there was one that they couldn’t stop in time. Felicity made the decision to divert it from Monument Point where instead it hit a town called Havenrock, which resulted in the loss of tens of thousands of lives. How do you think Felicity handled this situation? And how do you think this will affect her moving forward?
ALYSSA
When it comes down to it, Felicity did the best thing that she could’ve done given the circumstances: she saved millions of lives. But let’s get one thing clear: this is in no way Felicity’s fault. That blood of tens of thousands of people are on one person’s hands only: Damien Darhk. Felicity was backed into a lose-lose corner where she actually saved millions of lives. But make no mistake about it, Felicity will blame herself partially for the deaths of those in Havenrock. She can’t help it, that’s just who she is. I’d probably do the same thing. But when all is said and done I do believe she’ll always carry this with her. And I’m hoping we get a scene where she opens up to Oliver about this, and we get to see him be her light this time. For him to remind her that she did the only thing she could; that she saved millions of lives; that it’s not her fault.
LIZZIE
It’s a cruel choice, but ultimately, the correct one, and one I’m glad Felicity had the presence of mind to make. I’ve been criticizing Legends of Tomorrow, for example, because there no one seems to be willing to do what’s necessary. That’s never been a problem on Arrow. In fact, if anything, you can say we’ve got too many people willing to do what’s necessary here. Because, even in a comic show, the decision of thousands of lives vs millions is the right one.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t guilt that comes with being the one making the decision, and I really hope the show take some time to explore the ramifications of being the one who diverted the missile to Havenrock. This is not one of those things that you can or should sweep under the rock, and if anything, I think this will only bring the team closer together. There’s no one around who’s more familiar with having to make tough decisions than Oliver Queen.
LYRA
I think Felicity compartmentalized what was happening for the moment. She can’t let herself fall apart because of what she did to save millions. When Damien is finally gone, she can take a second to process the deaths at Havenrock. She isn’t the one at fault for the deaths but it won’t stop from feeling like it is or that she wasn’t quick enough to save those people. It’s going to shake her faith in herself but drive her to do better, to join the team again, and to not let herself be pulled away from the people she loves. All of it can disappear at a moments notice and she’s not going to waste time. Hopefully.
Thea found herself stuck on Damien Darhk’s Ark as she dealt with being held against her will, as well as the reappearance of an old friend in Anarky. What were your thoughts on Thea in this episode?
ALYSSA
Anarky might be a crazy son-of-a-bitch, but he’s not stupid when it comes to understanding what a badass Thea Queen is. ““You can make your own decisions, Thea. You’re not a pawn. You’re a QUEEN.” While I definitely agree with that statement – there have been numerous times when she was at the mercy of a guy, namely Malcolm – but her caring about the men in her life has never been a weakness; that’s been her strength. Now Malcolm, well, he’s always been her weakness. As far as Thea being trapped inside this Ark thing, I’ve never so impatient as Thea can literally do nothing but wait for the team to rescue her. That’s got to bring back that helpless feeling that she pushed far away at the end of season two – where you’re stuck and can’t do anything about it. But regardless she’s still a badass, as we saw when she took on Anarky. Thea is a badass, and don’t you ever forget it.
LIZZIE
I really enjoyed Thea in this episode. I usually either really enjoy Thea or forget she’s there, and though this season has been heavily skewed toward the later ,I’m glad that in such a crowded episode she got a chance to shine a bit – not just by standing up to Malcolm, but by being her own badass self against Anarky. I really hope she can take what Anarky said – as bad as the pun was- to heart, and stop letting other people determine what she does, or how she behaves. It’s time for Thea to take control of her own destiny, once and for all.
LYRA
Despite all the crazy going on in this episode, Thea was my favorite! She sassed her father, wasn’t taking anyone’s crap, and was on a mission to stop Anarky from killing people while making her way out of this Damien Ark of Doom. Talking about Anarky, his creepy love for his “mommy” makes me wish for an evil Thea that runs away with him to do evil things! that’s not too much to ask for right?
Donna and Quentin tackled the issue of trust in this week’s episode as Lance was lying about not knowing about Laurel’s double life as Black Canary, but he finally came clean because it was the right thing to do. What were your thoughts on SmoakNLance moving forward?
ALYSSA
I really liked that Arrow tackled this trust issue with Quentin and Donna as it sort of paralleled Oliver and Felicity and how that was an issue in their relationship. If there’s one thing you should know about Donna – other than she’s fiercely protective and loving of her daughter – it’s that she has zero tolerance for liars. She learned the hard way with her ex-husband, who just happened to come back into the picture in this episode. All Donna wants is for the people she loves to be honest with her and with themselves. Quentin was doing something that wasn’t morally right, and Donna didn’t want him to regret that down the line. Lying about knowing that what Laurel did as Black Canary was something he’d come to regret. It was nice to see him acknowledge he made a mistake and own up to it – even though it might cost him his shield.
LIZZIE
Are they the strongest couple in this show or what? I had some issues with their storyline this week, mostly because, as much as I understand where Donna was coming from, I think in real life, you lie your ass off in a situation like that, and on one really blames you for it, but hey, Arrow was trying to send a message that lying is bad, and I’m not against that message. However, I did like that Quentin was willing to listen to Donna and take her opinion into account, even if, at first, he didn’t seem to want to share this with her. It shows growth, especially for two people who, as serious and mature as they seem don’t have that much recent experience with romance.
LYRA
I can always do with more SmoakNLance. Both of these people deserve all the love in the world, especially because of how much they’ve suffered. Tackling the topic of trust is something that is essential to them moving on and becoming absolutely committed to each other. Moving forward, Donna needs to stop snooping and trust that Quentin will come to her when he needs it and Quentin needs to trust that Donna has his best interests at heart and is his partner. If they can’t do both of these things then they’d better stop what they’ve got now.
Well, now that one of the missiles was successful in killing tens of thousands of people, it appears as if Damien Darhk is nearly invincible. How can Team Arrow possibly defeat him?
ALYSSA
That’s a damn good question. Perhaps there’s a way to counter Darhk’s dark power with light? Seeing as light vs. dark is a theme with Oliver vs. Darhk here at the end of the season, I could see that being a factor. But honestly I have no idea. I actually like that we can’t really predict the outcome of the season right now. Where’s the fun in that? All we know right now is Darhk is all kinds of powerful and unstoppable and yet it’s up to Team Arrow to defeat him and save the world in the process. And I have faith in them. They’ll do it. How? That’s what I can’t wait to see.
LIZZIE
It seems to me that, if Damien Darhk can take power from the people he kills, Oliver should be able to do the same from the people he saves. And he’s saved a whole lot of people in his four years as the Green Arrow. More than Darhk has killed, I’d wager. Oliver just needs to figure this out. And, okay, get away from Darhk for now – possibly stop him from killing others. All of that would help. I do think it’s clear that this is a direct fight between Oliver and Darhk that has nothing to do with the physicality of last year’s final battle with Ra’s al Ghul. This is a battle of who’s strongest mentally, and Oliver needs to entertain the possibility that he is before he can win it.
LYRA
If you tell people that there is a secret underground base that can save them…they will come. So Oliver’s going to stand on top of a car, his imaginary hair flowing in the wind, and his muscles bulging in his street clothes. He’ll inform them of the safe haven with his deep growly voice and all shall fall under his spell. They will come upon Damien like the animals at the end of the Tarzan Official Teaser Trailer (1:27 to be specific.) Nothing will survive and Damien will be dead. The end.
What are your thoughts on “Monument Point?” Sound off in the comments to keep the discussion going!
Join us for another Arrow roundtable next Tuesday. Arrow airs Wednesdays at 8/7c on The CW.
