Once Upon A Time Roundtable “Murder Most Foul”

What a great episode. What a twist. Not because it was unexpected per se, but because every time we thought about the possibility, we pushed it away from our minds. We just didn’t want it to be true. But then again, Once Upon A Time isn’t in the business of making things easy for us, apparently.

Joining me to talk about “Murder Most Foul” and to Captain Charming, that ring and who exactly this Robin of Locksley actually is are Fangirlish writers Sarah, Caryn and Charles.

So, let’s get into it:

What were your overall thoughts on this episode?  Rate the episode on a scale of 1 to 10.

Lizzie: 8. It might have been a nine, or even higher, if it hadn’t been for the twist at the end, because boy, was that just a big old dose of drama for the sake of drama. In general, though, it was a very strong episode, the flashbacks were interesting, the Captain Charming was emotional, the Captain Swan moment was adorable, Regina/Snow was great, and though I hate what’s coming for Outlaw Queen, at least Regina seems to be going into it with her eyes open.

Caryn: 7/10 – The one thing that this episode did right is that it seemed to have a clear direction and things were resolved quickly. It was good for David to find out his father had good intentions but a lot of the other aspects of his story felt tedious and overdone.

Sarah: 8/10 . Honestly I truly loved this episode, right up until the last immensely frustrating cliched “twist.” Between Snow giving the honest tough love truth to Regina, Hook and Charming’s bromance adventure, and Captain Swan being so adorable it was wonderful and then it took a deep dive that I wish they hadn’t chosen to go.

Charles: 8. It would have been higher if not for the twist at the end with Hook and Charming’s dad. It hit on a lot of good things – from a Hook/David team-up, we had a lovely Captain Swan moment, Regina and Snow acting as friends. Even the flashbacks with Charming’s dad were interesting and added a ton to the story.  I just wish we hadn’t got that twist at the end.

Let’s talk the twist at the end first. Did you see it coming? Did you like it – or at least, can you understand why the writers made that decision? Or, does it come off as just drama for the sake of drama? Does the revelation that Hook was the one to kill Charming’s father change anything about this character for you?

Lizzie: I’ve been sure this was the way they were going to go since SDCC when they first brought up a Captain Charming adventure and the story behind the death of David’s dad. It’s just that, at some point since then, I almost decided it was too obvious for them to go that way. And then, of course, the episode lured me into a false sense of security and …here we are, in this place that we’ve been at before, with so many other shows. The drama for the sake of drama place.

Now, with that being said, I do understand why they did it – they did it to, in a weird way, try to advance Hook’s character, and maybe put a cherry on top of his redemption story. It’s not about what he did so much as how he’ll act now that he knows. He’s a changed man, and the Charmings have been plenty forgiving before. What I think the writers are going for is – Hook has to forgive himself.  He has to find peace with who he was and who he is. That’s something that, in a way, parallels what Regina is going through now. Do I think this was the right way to do it? No.  But I understand it, at least.

Does this change anything? Simple answer is no. I talked about this in my review, but when Hook killed that man he wasn’t killing David’s father, he was killing a stranger. Was it right, no? Was it OOC? Maybe. We’d never seen Hook act out in flashbacks out of anything that wasn’t vengeance or love. This was just – opportunism. And it kinda stings because we didn’t want to believe that he could have been that kind of a villain. But if he had never acted like that, would he have really been a villain? And if we hadn’t seen it, could we ever truly appreciate how far he’s come?

Caryn: I really had more hope in the writers than I should have. The twist just exhausted me, I thought perhaps Hook and Captain Swan had gone through enough turmoil but apparently not. Perhaps it’ll be one of those ‘if they can get through this they can get through anything type of situations, or maybe this will cause their Olicity like breakup. Either way it’s unnecessary drama caused by characters’ unnecessarily withholding information

Sarah:  Truthfully speaking the idea had come to mind months ago they might choose this path, after the story of Charming’s father’s death came into play but I chose to put it out of my mind.  I will admit I didn’t see it coming during the hour because I was simply too busy enjoying the episode. It doesn’t change anything about him to me, since we always knew how ruthless he was in his pirate past, but at the same time narrative wise I wish they had gone any other route to delay Hook proposing to Emma. Since that’s the only reason for the drama in my mind, I know Hook will overcome it by telling Emma and the entire Charming family the truth and put his past firmly behind him.

Charles: I should have seen it coming but I didn’t for some reason. I was not a fan of it simply for the reason that it will add drama where no drama should be added. I don’t want to see David angry at Hook again.  I know there can’t be smooth sailing on any tv show but this felt like going into the trope well and picking out the easiest one to use.  As for if this changes my opinion on Hook, no it doesn’t. Hook has changed from back then. The Captain Hook we know and love now is not the same man that stabbed Charming’s dad on that night.  Hook is a different person now. A much better person and I believe we will see this in how he handles this situation.

We had a bit of a role reversal in this episode – with Charming losing his way and Hook pulling him back from the edge. Did you enjoy their interactions? Was it believable? Describe your feelings about their friendship, and specifically, the last scene.

Lizzie: I enjoyed this part of the episode immensely. The instant camaraderie, the chemistry – you can tell these two men are friends in real life. That scene at the loft was pure comedy gold. I think, in a way, this was also a long time coming, because what other friend does Charming have? Who else could Hook have looked up to? Plus, it also feels like, even if we haven’t gotten many of these two over the years, we’ve gotten enough to appreciate how far they’ve come, and journeys are good. No, journeys are great.

The scene at the end – or well, the scene at the jail where Hook stops Charming, and the scene at the end where he asks for permission to marry Emma, were two of my favorite scenes of this whole season. The acting was on point, and you could tell that these two men really cared for each other above the thing they have in common, which is Emma.

Before we might have called this a bromance, but I think NOW it finally earns that name. The Captain Charming bromance.

Caryn: I think the most I’ve liked David over the past 2 seasons is in regards to his relationship with Hook. There is something about the chemistry between the actors and the characters which works so well. Their friendship is believable as they are a pair that have always worked well together and Hook’s relationship with Emma just got them even closer together.

Sarah: I loved all of their interactions, so much in this episode. It was wonderful to see them swap roles so to speak, as David was clearly in a find the truth revenge spiral that Hook understands all too well and did all he could to help his friend, be the sounding board and voice of reason when he needed it the most. It felt believable most of the time, I do wish sometimes they wouldn’t exaggerate Charming’s tendency to react badly when it comes to Hook for the sake of drama since we’ve seen them work together and frankly be part of the same family for a while. Aside from that, their friendship has felt honest after what they’ve all gone through over the last few years, and while David has always, likely held high standards for Emma to see him happily give Hook his blessing to ask Emma to marry him was one of the most touching scenes I’ve enjoyed on OUAT. 

Charles: Oh yes it was very believable in my eyes. Charming and his dad’s relationship reminds me a little of mine with my dad. It was nowhere near perfect but I still loves the man, flaws and all. David is the same and that makes you do some reckless things. Their interactions were perfect as it was the role reversal of what you would expect. Charming being reckless and careless  while Hook is the one thinking and calming. I think I would love to see more of them being friends and it was (for lack of a better word) charming when Hook asked for his permission to marry Emma. A part of me thinks David would have gave his blessing anyway but he felt touched that hook helped him with this that it meant a lot to him. It was beautiful…till that last damn scene!

Hook has a ring. A RING. Describe your feelings about the upcoming Captain Swan proposal with one gif:


Caryn excited yas lord exciting praise GIF

SarahRelated image



If you had to write the perfect proposal for Captain Swan – what would it be and why?

Lizzie: I legit only ask two things – that no one else be around, because, please, please, please, let it just be the two of them, and that it’s not a huge, elaborately planned thing. I don’t think a big production  means as much to either of them as the idea that they’re going to spend the rest of their lives together. So I just want this to be their moment, and theirs alone, and I want it to be heartfelt, not overtly rehearsed.

Caryn: I would love it if it’s a private moment between Hook and Emma, perhaps on the Jolly Roger, and hopefully it catches Emma off guard.

Sarah: My headcanon since I saw that ring in the promo has been on the deck of the Jolly Roger. I would write it to be at night maybe Hook has some candles placed around and “planned” for him and Emma to just spend some time together, alone star-gazing and then surprise her with the proposal If the details are different I’m sure I’ll love it however it’s going to happen, but my main wish is that when Hook proposes it’s a private albeit ridiculously I’ll be squealing and crying happy, moment for Captain Swan. I cannot wait to see it!

Charles: I’d love for it to be on the Jolly Roger but I think the perfect proposal would be in Granny’s Diner.  Hook would have Emma there in front of her family and friends and propose to her there.  So many moments have happened there and it is a big part of their history that it would feel weird not to happen there.

Robin of Locksley doesn’t seem to be the same man as our Robin Hood – and even Regina sees it now. What do you think he wants? Where is this storyline going? And why did the writers bring him back if not to give Outlaw Queen a happy ending?

Lizzie: I want to believe that he was just creeped out by Regina’s vault, which, let’s be honest, would creep out anyone, but I don’t. I think he’s been playing her all along, and he probably has a plan – a reason why he wanted to come to this world. Either way, it seems clearer than ever that there’s no happy ending in store for Outlaw Queen, and that means that, as nice as it was to see Sean Maguire again, whatever comes next is probably going to hurt. To which, I ask, was it really necessary? Fans of the character – and the couple, already went through mourning once. Why put them through it again? What was the point? What did Regina – or anyone else, for that matter, have to gain by it? 

There better be an answer.

Caryn: I’m not exactly sure if they brought Robin back for Outlaw Queen or to show off Sean Maguire’s diverse talent. I do think this Robin is in a mission and it will be interesting to see how he will develop.

Sarah: Robin of Locksley definitely isn’t the Robin Hood we, and Regina knew but I’m still not entirely sure what he wants and why he really chose to come to Storybrooke. Regina made it heartbreakingly clear she knows the difference, but honestly a part of me was relieved that was established immediately to get down to the real questions. I never thought Robin was brought back to give Outlaw Queen a happy ending, that dream died with Robin Hood last season, but I do think he’s here to do something important. Whether or not that turns out to be a good thing we’ll see but I’m hoping whatever happens Regina is able to find some more peace than before.

Charles: This Robin may not be a good guy but I’m not quite sure he is a bad guy yet. Yes he did steal that box at the end of the episode but we don’t know yet why. I think he might try to use to go back to the dreamworld.  I still see Regina trying to make him into a good man and I hope she succeeds. I want Regina to have happiness in her life. She deserves it.

Agree? Disagree? Want to participate in one of these round-tables in the future? Share with us in the comments below!

Once Upon a Time airs on Sundays at 8/7c on ABC.

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