Once Upon A Time Roundtable “Ill-Boding Patterns”

So …Captain Swan is engaged! And Hook didn’t get a chance to confess his secrets. What a bunch of …drama.

Though, seeing it all develop, it was hard to blame him. It was hard to blame her. It’s still possible to blame the situation, though. Or the writers. Would some honesty be too much to ask?

But, it’s all coming to a head soon. We’re sure of it. And hey, we have a lot of things to say about the Rumple, the engagement and ugh, even the Outlaw Queen of “Ill-Boding Patterns.”

Joining me this week are Fangirlish writers Sarah, Charles and our lovely guest – Emily!

Here we go:

Image courtesy of http://genrecaps.net

What were your overall thoughts on this episode?  Rate the episode on a scale of 1 to 10.

Lizzie: I’m going to say 7. It was way better than I expected, because Rumple + his kids is the best version of Rumple. But…there was a lot of Nealfire, my least favorite character ever in OUAT, and the writers pulled the Hook proposes to Emma without coming clean trope, which …I could have done without. Despite that, though, I enjoyed the honesty behind the proposal, the way Emma has come so far that she basically ambushed Killian and forced his hand, the way his eyes went soft because he wanted to give her everything. The circumstances were wrong, but the proposal, as it is, can never be. True love and all that.

Sarah:  7 is what I’m going with. It wasn’t a bad episode per say, but any episode that focuses on Rumple I’m just not going to enjoy as much as I normally would. That being said I liked that it focused on his relationship with his son in the past and present. Hook and Archie was everything I didn’t know I needed from those two. Captain Swan was literally one of my favorite scenes ever of theirs to date and dang it I enjoyed it despite the angst.

Charles: 6.5. It wasn’t a bad episode but it was a very heavy Rumple/Baelfire episode. The problem with that is I’m not a big Rumple/Baelfire fan. Sorry just not. I enjoyed the Hook/Archie scenes and LOVED the Captain Swan proposal.  The Rumple/Baelfire/ Gideon stuff was good overall but just not my cup of tea.

Emily: 8. I enjoyed the Rumple parts, as I find him a fascinating character, and I liked that the episode dealt more with Bae and Gideon than with the romantic aspect. Also, though I wish Hook had come clean, I enjoyed the proposal. It was cute!

Image courtesy of http://genrecaps.net

This episode presented a contrast between the redemption stories of our three main “villains” – Rumple, Hook and Regina. How do you compare the journeys and how close do you think each of them are to redemption?

Lizzie: I think Hook and Regina are much farther along in the path than Rumple. In fact – I think Hook’s main obstacle in the path of full redemption right now is that pesky little secret and the fact that he doesn’t truly believe he’s a good guy, not completely. Regina is another matter – because Regina seems close, but she has never been as close as Hook because, until this episode, we’d never seen her admit that she was the one who did all those evil things. She. Not the Evil Queen. But admit it she has, and I think that’s a big step that she really needed to take.

Hook will need to confess – not just to Emma, but to the Charmings. And he will need to, through confessing, through their reception of his confession, come to accept that he can be a good guy, not just because that brings good results, but because he wants to be. That’s the final step for him. For Regina to get there, on the other hand, she needs to go beyond the acceptance, she needs to come clean about all that she has done, she needs to ask for forgiveness and for crying out loud, she needs to do something about that vault full of hearts. Where are those people? Why do they still exist without hearts so many years after she “stopped” being the Evil Queen.

Finally, Rumple needs to, I think, sacrifice himself. I don’t think anything else will do for him, at this point. There’s no redemption to be had in the love story – the only way he can find redemption is through his son.

Sarah:  Hook, and Regina in my opinion have come much farther in their journeys to find redemption compared to Rumple. He’s gone back and forth so much I’m not sure redemption is even possible for him except in putting his son first firmly before himself and that may mean a sacrifice that he’s not even touched up to this point. Regina has come a long way since the pilot and her days as the EQ however her struggle to reconcile her identity with having separated herself is still I feel one of her hardest difficulties to date. I think it’ll still take some more effort to get there for her but I’m confident she will. Hook, I think has come the farthest in terms of having worked very hard to put his past as a ruthless pirate behind him, but his current conflict highlights the one thing he hasn’t been able to do thus far: forgive himself. I think going through what he’s about to confront with Charming and Emma will finally help him do that but not without a signature dose of angst that OUAT never fails to write in.

Charles: Rumple would most likely have to sacrifice himself to get peace and redemption. Hook has, I think more than he redeemed himself countless times. He is a good man, even if he doesn’t believe it himself. Regina is tricky because she has redeemed herself but also she will never feel that way herself. She is honestly too hard on herself at times. Except for Emma and Hook, Regina is my favorite and I would love to see her get a happy ending/redemption by herself first and foremost.

Emily:  Rumple’s redemption is, I think, his kids. So he’s not all the way there and he’s messed up a lot, but I firmly believe that he can make it, because Gideon is there, and he wants to be a better man, not for himself, but for his son. Hook is farther along the path of redemption, because he’s done the good deeds, and also because he understands that what he did was wrong. Regina is a bit more tricky, because she tries to pass off what she did wrong as the EQ having done it instead of taking responsibility and it’s impossible to ever be redeemed if you don’t confess to all your bad deeds. I think Regina has a long way to go still, more than the other two.

Describe your feelings about the Outlaw Queen nonsense with one gif:

Lizzie: Image result for bangs head gif



Emily: Image result for harsh gif

Rumple is always at his best when it comes to his sons. Did you enjoy his characterization in this episode? Do you think the writing’s on the wall and he’ll end up sacrificing himself for Gideon? Tell me your Rumple minus Belle feels.

Lizzie: Surprisingly so, I kinda did. I thought I was over Rumple, but I realized in this episode that I’m merely over Rumbelle. I can take Rumple when he’s by himself and fighting for his kids – especially because Robert Carlyle is such a good actor that it’s easy to believe whatever he’s selling. I always thought he was at this best when it came to Nealfire, and now Gideon proves that the true love of his life isn’t Belle, was never going to be Belle – it was always his kids. And that sucks for Belle, but it presents another kid of TL story, one that we rarely ever see, a father and his sons. Motherly love is explored way more often, and if Rumple’s destiny is to show this facet of love and die in the name of saving his son, then I’m going on record as saying that yes, this was a story worth telling.

Sarah: At this point my idea of a good Rumple scene is when he’s managing to not be a selfish power consumed jerk that has so defined him for the entire run of the show. In spite of his history I did like seeing how even when consumed with power in the past or present when his son needs his help he’s there to do whatever he can to help him (even if it doesn’t seem like it’s the right choice ie helping Gideon drain Blue.) If he can’t convince Gideon to abandon his mission to kill Emma so he can become the “savior” then honestly yes I would believe he’d sacrifice himself but knowing this show it won’t be anywhere near simple. I am curious to find out though.

Charles: I feel nothing for Rumple. All his backstabbing then hey I’m a good guy then psych I’m not has gotten tiresome. For this episode it was nice to see him be a good dad for once but it didn’t feel me with any kind of caring for him. If he does sacrifice himself for Gideon, then it would be a good ending for him but I worry his selfish side will come back once again.

Emily: I feel like this brought out the good side of him again, the one I always knew was there. It’s really sad that the writers decided he could only be this man with his sons, not with Belle, but at least they didn’t completely give up on the goodness there was in him. I think there’s a big chance he’ll sacrifice himself for Gideon, and that just breaks my heart, because he didn’t really get to enjoy either of his sons.

Image courtesy of http://genrecaps.net

Captain Swan is engaged, and yet – Hook proposed without first confessing the secret he’d been hiding. Can you blame him, considering the circumstances? Were you still happy to see it happen? Do you think he’s going to come clean, and, if so, how will Emma react?

Lizzie: Oh, boy, do I have feels. Can I blame Hook? Not really. Emma almost ambushed him and she was so happy, so in love, so over-the-moon that he just didn’t want to ruin the moment for her. I can, however, blame the writers. There was no need to sully their proposal this way. They could have done it right, without secrets, without drama for the sake of drama, and they chose not to. Worst part is, it looks like the drama is going to be quickly resolved, which just leads to the question of WHY even do it in the first place.

That being said – I was, am, happy that they’re engaged. They’re my OTP and they give me feels and I love Emma and her journey has been the most satisfying thing in this show. She went from lost girl who couldn’t even admit she’d been in love, that’s how hurt she still was, to a woman who ran away from a proposal, to this happy version of her that wanted to marry this man so much she said yes before he even asked the question. That’s a journey. That’s character growth. And it doesn’t make her weaker to be in love, it doesn’t make her weaker to want to share her life with someone – it makes her strong.

As for the secret – we all know that’s not staying a secret for long. Either Hook will confess, or someone will tell Emma, but that’s coming out, soon. I think Emma’s reaction will depend on how it comes out, but I think ultimately, she’ll forgive him. She knew who he was before he met her, and though I think the writers struck out completely with this storyline (there was really no need to turn Hook into a ruthless killer), I don’t think they ever meant for this to be a permanent obstacle. Plus, forgiveness isn’t even that far-fetched in this show. Regina killed Snow’s dad. Snow killed Regina’s mother. Regina almost killed pretty much everyone. Rumple killed Milah. And yet, people keep forgiving the unforgivable. Why would this be the exception?

Sarah:  As much as I wish the proposal didn’t happen with the angst in the background, I don’t blame him for a second for making the choice he did. If there’s one thing Hook has always done it’s putting Emma and her happiness first and that’s exactly what he did in that moment. I know a lot of people were upset at the circumstances, but it was still one of their most beautiful moments for me. The way she literally bounded down the stairs humming with excitement and her openness at how her answer would be yes. Asking him to say it anyways and the absolute love in his eyes when he got down and said the words, I can’t begin to say how wonderful that was to see. I do believe he will come clean even though he realizes the consequences of it will be much more difficult now. Hook’s come a long way and he loves & respects Emma and the Charmings too much to not own up to the truth. Emma, will obviously be hurt and upset and I wouldn’t blame her for it. In the end though, at heart she knows the person that did that isn’t the man she loves today. Like everything else thrown in their path, they’ll overcome this on their way to the happy ending they’ve fought so hard for, and I can’t wait to see it.

Charles: He was in a tough spot no doubt. Emma found the ring, as it always seems the case in tv shows. Haha! I was still happy to see it however because I know Hook is going to come clean very soon. You could see how holding the secret was hurting him inside and he know that he just wants to come clean. I think Emma will be hurt at first but also understand that the Hook who did that is gone. The Hook she is engaged to now is a better , kinder man and Emma sees that the good man Killian has become. So they will come out of this stronger is my hope. 

Emily: I don’t like it, but I don’t know what else he could have done. She was just standing there looking so happy how could he just say, no honey, let me ruin this moment with death. I mean, he could have, but I probably wouldn’t have, either. I do think this will be a secret that won’t stay secret for long. And mostly I think that this has been a long time coming and it’s nice that Emma finally gets to be happy with the man she wants.

Image courtesy of http://genrecaps.net

Express your Captain Swan proposal feels in one gif:

Lizzie: Image result for happy enchanted gif



EmilyImage result for about time gif

Agree? Disagree? Want to participate in one of these round-tables in the future? Share with us in the comments below!

Once Upon a Time airs on Sundays at 8/7c on ABC.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.