Every week, Fangirlish writers will be discussing new episodes of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and speculation about the hour’s hot topics in a little something we like to call Fangirlish Roundtables.
Today, we’re breaking down episode eight of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, “Night of the Hawk,” where we discuss the controversial subjects discussed like racism, sexism, and sexuality, as well as our thoughts on the Ray/Kendra romance, and whether or not we believe Rory is actually dead.
What were your overall thoughts on “Night of the Hawk?”
As a whole this episode was far from my favorite and, I admit, hard to watch at times. I get where it was going – trying to have some fun with the whole ‘50s monster movie theme – but to me this episode was very clunky. But with that said, this episode did provide some good moments, including tackling issues like racism, sexism, and sexuality during a time where they were essentially sacrilegious. Once again the best parts of a Legends of Tomorrow episode came in the form of character interaction and development, which are the two single-handed most important things about this show. At least that’s why I am watching.
Something has been bugging me about Legends of Tomorrow and how it seemingly falls into two categories: really good where everything is working (like “Star City 2046,” which continues to be my favorite episode of the series) or not so good where things are off, but there are nice moments built in. One guess which “Night of the Hawk” falls under.
To me, I feel like I finally pinpointed why so many of these episodes have fallen short. That’s because there’s too much emphasis on this big bad Vandal Savage, who honestly feels more like a villain of the week than a big bad. Given everything we’ve seen from Savage so far I just don’t fear him. Sorry. But I feel like the show is somewhat catering to Savage because he’s been set up as this immortal villain that the audience has been told more than shown to fear. It’s funny because last week’s episode (“Marooned”) didn’t have one trace of Savage in it, and yet it was one of the show’s best because it focused on these characters that we love; it focused on the reason why I believe the audience is watching.
Also: I loved how they referred to the hospital’s Hall H as the one where all the crazies were located. A subtle nod to the craziness that is Hall H at San Diego Comic Con.
Although there were some good things, all in all, I thought the episode was messy. The characters and the interactions I like the most were mostly absent, and the whole thing about going after Savage without a plan, which was, maybe understandable a few episodes ago, is starting to seem like shoddy writing. The plan HAS to be something other than: “Let’s find Savage and see what happens.” It just has to. Because, if it’s not, at some point, that just takes away from the show as a whole. I love these characters, and I’ve looked away from the fact that the plot hasn’t made a whole lot of sense so far, but this is episode eight. EIGHT. They need to figure it out, not fast. NOW.
I kind of hated it. They didn’t plan ahead as much as they should. Haven’t they learned that jumping into situations without working things out is a recipe for disaster? And then there’s Vandal Savage. Every time I see him I roll my eyes and sigh. Why is he still there yet? The only saving graces of this episode are Sara and her cutie pie romance and Snart’s beauty in that suit. *whispers* Give me more Captain Canary.
This episode tackled issues that were definitely controversial for the 1950s time period with racism, sexism, and sexuality. What were your thoughts on that?
This was hands down my favorite thing about this episode was that while it took the time to have some fun with the whole ‘50s monster movie of it all it did take the time to address some issues prevalent during that time. We saw with racism how Kendra struggled being the “wife” of a white man and how Jax struggled being a black boy talking to a white girl who was genuinely interested in him. They did not take kindly to them. Then we had Sara spearheading two other important issues with sexism and sexuality, both of which happened within the insane asylum. This was a reminder that since Legends of Tomorrow has the ability to explore different times that it can also explore the issues that were happening during that time.
For me, this was the best part of the episode, by far. I think they did a pretty good job, because they showed the issues, and they presented a nice contrast, but they never got preachy. Preachy is a turn-off, even when you’re right. And, for a show that’s about as subtle as a sledgehammer, they really handled the issues presented in this episode in a very skillful and nuanced way. Kuddos to them for that.
I loved that aspect of the episode. It tackled some things I didn’t think Legends of Tomorrow would ever cover. It showed me that the show was so much more and has the potential to grow. Unfortunately it was all muddled up Savage and his creepy stalker behavior towards Kendra. He was like an eyesore that just wouldn’t go away.
Sara got cozy with a nurse named Lindsay in this episode, which actually provoked feelings that Sara never knew she could feel again. What did you think of Sara’s confession regarding her feelings?
I understand what the show was trying to do with this Sara and Lindsay romance, but I didn’t buy it because of a lack of chemistry between the characters. The purpose of this was to bring Sara’s feelings to the forefront and also challenge the way of thinking for the 1950s, which included sexuality. It also ties in with Sara’s character that is bisexual. But I had a hard time believing that that was the first time Sara had “felt” anything again. Maybe it was because it was a kiss, but I’ve seen Sara all flirty around Snart and felt more from longing looks than that kiss she shared with the nurse. But I did like how the episode addressed these feelings Sara has had about her feelings. Since she has come back to life she’s been afraid that she won’t be able to “feel” again. So everything is sort of brand new for her, which adds to her character arc moving forward. I just see more development happening with Snart than that nurse. Captain Canary for life!
Had to happen. In fact, I’m surprised it took so long. I’m choosing to take this as a good sign for my Captain Canary ship, because Sara had to get to this point, she had to open up, she needed someone to break into her self-preservation walls, and that someone couldn’t be the person she was going to end up with. That’s just not the way TV works. So, the fact that Lindsay made her feel was a very good thing – for Sara and for the storyline that’s coming. Though, after being left stranded in the 50’s, it’s all going to go bad before it goes good. Still, good sign. Good sign.
I think it’s exactly what Sara needed. (For a second there I forgot that Sara died and came back as a crazy rage monster.) She’s been disconnected from herself even though she tries so hard to hide it. This story line was a simple and yet sweet way to guide Sara back to the person she was before. To make her realize that she’s the kind of person that takes risks and isn’t afraid of anything, even her own feelings.
Ray and Kendra posed as an interracial married couple in this time at a time when their relationship is just beginning. What are your thoughts on Ray and Kendra as a romantic pairing? Have you warmed up to them or down?
While the set-up was good – forcing two people to pretend to be a married couple when they weren’t a real one (it was something I totes wanted for Oliver and Felicity on Arrow) – the execution of the whole thing fell flat because of the pairing of ray and Kendra. I’m sorry, one week later and I still don’t feel the chemistry between the two. It continues to come off as so forced and rushed that I can’t really teach myself to like it. It reminds me of the early days of Arrow when the show tried to make me like Oliver and Laurel together and I just couldn’t because I didn’t believe it. Maybe if they had taken Ray and Kendra’s relationship slower it would’ve helped things, but they essentially threw them together last week and tried to sell this connection and I just didn’t buy it.
Ugh. First of all, who thought of THAT brilliant idea? Wait, why am I asking this? No one did. Of course. And second, nope, not feeling the Ray/Kendra. And it’s all on Kendra. Not feeling anything for her, really. Not feeling empathy, not feeling pain, not feeling fear. Kendra is just a blank slate for me. I have to like her to be able to ship her with someone, and so far, I don’t. I don’t hate her either – I just don’t care. And, on TV, sometimes, that’s even worse than hate.
Ray and his earnest face I believe, though. And this is why I think that, with the proper development, I could go for the couple. I just need a whole lot more from Kendra.
Personally, I don’t care for the Kendra/Ray pairing. It’s missing a spark and looks to be added just for drama. While I do agree that they can have all the fun they want, they’re not ready for a relationship. The way that Kendra acted when Ray offered her help in defeating Savage is very telling. Kendra thought he wasn’t comfortable with her going because he thought she wasn’t capable. No, it wasn’t that. He knows she’s a badass. He also knows that Savage has managed to kill Kendra over and over. They need to try something different and work together. Her instant doubt in him and herself is not the strongest of beginnings for a stable relationship.
On a side note, they all need to take a class in strategy and teamwork. They suck at planning and working together.
Earlier in this episode, Jax questioned Snart’s character in relation to taking Rory outside and killing him. But by episode’s end Jax understood that Snart wasn’t a monster like he thought. What did you think of that evolution, and do you believe Snart is headed in a heroic direction?
I feel like since the moment Snart – and Rory, for the matter – stepped foot onto the Waverider that the others have had a certain perception about who these people were: criminals. And while most of them have warmed up to them – seeing them in action working with the team and fighting a common enemy – it doesn’t surprise me that Jax still had his worries about Snart. All it took was a certain event – Snart “killing” Rory – for Jax to question Snart’s character. What kind of person could just up and kill their friend like that? You have to think that Jax was thinking, What’s to stop him from doing that to any of us? Well, Jax got his answer in this episode when Snart had the opportunity to kill Jax when he was one of Savage’s monster things. Only Snart didn’t kill him. He let him live, and together with the team they found another way to save Jax. It was nice to see Jax approach Snart at the end and thank him for that and to tell him that he isn’t the monster he thought he was.
Listen, I still don’t believe that Rory is dead – I refuse to believe death until you produce a body for me – but if Snart really did kill Rory, it was for a good reason that Jax now understands. Snart did what he had to do – and trust me, it was hard – because Rory was unstable and was a liability to this team and the mission. But Snart has already shown what side he is on from last week’s episode when he chose the team over Rory. Snart is someone who takes allegiance very seriously, and these people are now an important part of his life. So he’s going to do whatever he can to protect them. Dare I say that he is on a heroic path, as we’ve witnessed in eight episodes. While I don’t believe Snart will ever be a full-blown hero, he’s showing that he’s evolving for the better and existing as his own kind of hero.
Yes, I do. I love that he tries to downplay his good side. I don’t for a moment believe he killed Mick, but I don’t think that has any bearing on his hero or not status. I think Snart is a good man who has learned the hard way that it’s easier to pretend he isn’t. Easier on his heart, in particular. I think Sara and Rip, maybe even Ray had already placed him in the “good guy” category, but I’m glad that Jax has now joined the list. It was a nice moment of character growth in an episode that felt strangely devoid of those.
Honestly, I don’t know what to think about this question in relation to Snart. He’s not a hero. He also isn’t a villain. Snart’s a man out for his own. The only difference is that he recognizes when he needs to set others needs above his. He’s practical. Rory is a part of his life that he can never get rid of. The others don’t recognize this and think that he’s turned a leaf. Or I could totally be wrong and he’s on his way to being the man he always thought he could be if not for his upbringing. Either way I can’t wait to get more of him on my screen.
The final moments of the episode saw the Waverider attacked by Cronos and Sara, Ray, and Kendra watched as the Waverider seemingly left them behind in 1958 Oregon. What do you think will happen next?
: I do have to say that a question that I’ve had since the show began is what happens if one of our Legends gets stuck in the past? Well, with Sara, Ray, and Kendra now faced with that situation as the Waverider left them in 1958 Oregon, we’re about to find out. Now I may have cheated with this question because I watched the extended promo, which revealed that apparently two years have passed since that cliffhanger, which means that Sara, Ray, and Kendra have been living some kind of new life in this town since the crew “left” them. So what do I think they ultimately did? Well, I believe they did just that – they decided they had to move on with their lives. You have to wonder how long they waited before they decided that the team wasn’t coming back for them. A day; a week; a month; a year? But it looks like they did the only thing they could do: they moved on. Now of course they won’t be there forever – they will find their way back on the Waverider and back with the team – but a lot of time will have passed between them. So who knows what people they’ll be when they return?
Hopefully one of them will punch Rip in the face when they see him again, because there was literally no reason to leave them. This is Arrow’s baby mama drama all over again, drama for the sake of drama. Kronos was IN the ship? How does taking of help you get rid of him? Please, explain.
But most of all, I think this is the writer’s trying to speed up some things, and give us growth within the space of an episode. Sara will go through her emotional journey, and Kendra/Ray will be a believable couple by the time the Waverider picks them back up again. At least that’s the idea.
First they’ll wait. There is plenty of need to jump to conclusions, but they can’t do anything about it. They’re stuck in 1958. Eventually they’ll realize that the Waverider isn’t coming back anytime soon. They’ll settle. Ray will get a job easily (because he’s a white man who is incredibly smart.) Sara will be afforded some leeway because she’s white. Kendra won’t be so lucky because this time and the way they treated women of color was utterly frustrating. When they’re sick and tired of living there they’ll move onto finding a legit way home. Pack your bags guys! They’re going to Nanda Parbat. (I hate that place. All the painful memories.)
What are your thoughts on “Night of the Hawk?” Sound off in the comments to keep the discussion going!
Join us for another Legends of Tomorrow roundtable when Legends returns on March 31.
Legends of Tomorrow airs Thursdays at 8/7c on The CW.