Every week, Fangirlish writers will be discussing new episodes of The Flash and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and speculation about the hour’s hot topics in a little something we like to call Fangirlish Roundtables.
Today, we’re breaking down the penultimate episode of The Flash season two, “Invincible,” where we discuss Barry and Zoom, Katie Cassidy as the villainous Black Siren, and that cliffhanger death.
What were your overall thoughts on “Invincible?”
The Flash knows how to close out a season, and “Invincible” was proof of that as one of the best episodes of the season. Once again it blended all of the things that make me love this show: the character depth, the heart, the humor, the action, the pain, and high stakes. You could really start to see how The Flash was setting up this epic battle between Barry and Zoom, as well as the future when it comes to Barry and Iris.
This was one of my favorite episodes of the season. I love it when Barry is optimistic, even if I understand why everyone else would rather he remain a bit grounded in reality. Fact is, the reason we love Barry is because he isn’t Oliver Queen, he’s like a ball of sunshine, even in the worst of times, and he feels things very, very deeply. I don’t expect Barry can ever remain this pure ball of sunshine, but, especially considering what happened at the end of the episode, it was nice that we got a glimpse of that before we lost it, possibly for good.
I also loved the Wally parts – me, I loved the Wally parts. Imagine THAT. Catilin as well, and it’s been a while since she’s gotten to me. So, all in all, great episode. Let’s see if the finale can top it.
Probably one of my favorite episodes of the season so far. They’re starting to set up the epic battle between Zoom and Barry by ramping up the ANGST! They’re also setting up WestAllen and what comes next with Cisco’s powers (hopefully not Vibe costume.) I have no idea how this seasons going to end that’s a good thing!
P.S. Caitlin being haunted by Zoom was one of my favorite parts of this episode. Bet that jerk is actually appearing to her in hopes of driving her mad!
Zoom believes that Barry and him are the same – only Zoom has been touched by more darkness. So there was this insistence of Zoom to bring Barry to his level, as evidenced by him killing Barry’s father in front of him. What are your thoughts on the differences and similarities between Barry and Zoom?
Honestly I really love how The Flash has managed to weave personal connections between Barry and the big bads over these first two seasons. That episode were we learned about Zoom’s past – and how it made him the monster he is – was one of the best things this show did as it introduced a new layer to this dynamic. Barry and Zoom had similar childhood experiences – both losing their mothers at a young age – only they grew up to be polar opposites: Barry, a hero; and Zoom, a villain.
But I really loved how Zoom has honed in on that aspect. It’s almost as if he’s been trying to figure out how Barry suffered a similar circumstance and managed to come out of it in one piece. Zoom ultimately came to the conclusion that it’s because Barry didn’t witness that tragedy firsthand, as he was carried away from the scene before his mother died.
It’s almost as if, to Zoom, Barry is that younger brother that gets all of the attention and the good things; that Barry had the life that Zoom thought he deserved. So Zoom decided to level the playing field and killed Barry’s father right in front of him. Only Zoom doesn’t realize the real difference between him and Barry is in the way they view the world. Zoom criticized Barry for his first instinct always being to save people. But ultimately being a hero is what will help Barry defeat Zoom in the end.
I think Zoom doesn’t understand the concept of choice. Yes, Barry and him might have gone through similar things, but there’s always an element of choice in the equation of who you become. Zoom wants to think that he had no choice other than go all psycho, but Barry proves that there’s always a choice. And while there is a choice, while Barry is there to be the shinning proof of this, Zoom will always feel bad. Which is why he needs to bring Barry to his level.
The thing about Zoom is that he’s a madman, yes, but he’s a madman grounded in a very real and tragic story. And that makes him even more scary. Because, one he realizes he can’t make Barry like him, then there’s only one other option …destroy Barry and everything he loves.
The similarities between Zoom and Barry are kind of haunting when you lay them out. In another life Barry could have been like Zoom. He could’ve been shaken up and traumatised with no one believing him. Luckily enough, he wasn’t. Someone took up the helm and gave Barry all the love in the world. Looking at you Joe. Living with the Wests changed Barry. Imagine if Zoom had that? If he received the same love and understanding?
At the end of the day Zoom is just jealous that even though they’re so similar, Barry came out better. He got the better ‘deal.’ Instead of trying to follow that path and be better, he’s decided to even things out to bring Barry to his side. After all, if it really was the best hand life could give out, then why isn’t Barry more powerful than him?
Speaking of that huge cliffhanger death, what were your thoughts on Henry Allen’s death?
My immediate thought was, “Oh, thank God it wasn’t Joe.” I’m sorry. Is that mean? To be honest ever since Henry said that he was going to permanently stay in Central City to be in Barry’s life I was certain something bad was going to happen to him. The fact that John Wesley Shipp is a guest star and not a series regular was a dead giveaway.
But with that said Henry’s loss was a huge blow to Barry. This is the second parent he’s lost at the hands of a maniacal speedster intent on trying to unleash a certain darkness upon him. But I have no doubt that Barry will fight that darkness and prove to be the hero his father always knew he was.
In a way, Henry’s death was also a nice parallel to how Oliver lost his mom near the end of the second season of Arrow. In fact this episode had quite a few parallels to the show that spawned it – with the loss of Barry’s only remaining parental figure to Wally essentially going the route of Roy Harper. I guess that kind of stuff happens when you work on both of these shows.
I wish I could say I was surprised. He was gone most of the season, and then he returned for good, and well …Arrow has shown parents die in these shows. So, all in all, though Henry’s death was tragic, and I liked him, better him than Joe. Because I will watch this show without Henry Allen, but I won’t watch without Joe West.
That being said, what is the evilness of teasing us with the Henry Allen/Cristina Mcgee pairing just before snatching him away? I remember the old Flash – I’ve seen reruns. That’s just toying with my heart, okay?
I’ll start off by saying that at least it wasn’t Joe. There. I’ve thrown the gauntlet down on a Henry question. But honestly he wasn’t my favorite of Barry’s parents and his storyline had dried up. And if you look at the writing they weren’t planning on doing anything else with him but using him to tear out Barry’s heart. It was all sorts of messed up, that Zoom thought the only place in Central City good enough to kill Henry, was at THAT house. Now both of Barry’s have died because of a speedster in the same home. That’s bound to shake up anyone and make it so you never enter that damn house again. Barry’s never going to stop trying to destroy Zoom.
In this episode Barry seemed overconfident after his little run-in with the Speed Force. He was acting, dare I say, “Invincible.” What were your thoughts on this?
There’s a nice balance when it comes to confidence. You can’t be not-confident-enough and you can’t be cocky. Normally Barry is more confident and optimistic than most, but Barry found himself on that cocky spectrum in this episode. Look, I understand that he has this newfound confidence after his experience with the Speed Force, but Barry missed the whole point of what they were trying to tell him. They were trying to tell him that there are tragedies that even he can’t outrun. As in, there will be more tragedies in your future. The Speed Force may be on his side, but that doesn’t make Barry invincible. Nothing has changed. Obviously after what’s happened in this episode will cause Barry to revert back to his previous stance, where things were a bit darker. But he needs to confident in himself in order to beat Zoom. But then again I enjoyed Barry returning to that optimistic guy we know him to be.
I basically want to forget that the speed force happened and that it took the form of Barry’s mom and that his speed had anything to do with accepting her death because that still doesn’t make any sense to me at all. So, yeah, I’m just going to go with – I enjoyed this sort of return to the Barry of the first few episodes of Season 1. I knew it wasn’t going to last, it never does, but it was sort of funny to see everyone’s reactions to “optimistic Barry”
Which makes me think, Barry isn’t that bad, is he? I mean, I don’t think he is, but everyone was acting like this was the first time ever that they’d seen Barry be optimistic. I know Barry’s a guy who’s, ahem, very in touch with his emotions, but he’s not Oliver Queen, guys. Cut him some slack.
Let the man be confident. I honestly was perfectly fine with it. Too often our heroes are on a doubt riddled brooding train that never stops. (That’s ok for a while but we’ve got to step off after a bit.) Having confidence doesn’t hurt you. Sure a good dose of fear helps in clearing things up and making you weigh your chances, but having confidence isn’t the end all of everything. You do you Barry!
Laurel Lance of Earth-2 made an appearance as an evil metahuman named Black Siren. What were your thoughts on her?
Gosh I enjoy Katie Cassidy so much as a villain. Black Siren was fierce, snarky, powerful, and badass in every way. I feel like I enjoyed this version of Laurel much more than I did on Arrow. It’s just something about the villainous intent that is so compelling. I’m glad that they didn’t end up killing her like I assumed they would because it allows her to be able to come back to The Flash or even Arrow in some capacity.
Is it possible that this was always what Laurel Lance was meant to be? Is Katie Cassidy just so much better at playing the villain? I don’t know, but I enjoyed Black Siren a hundred times more than I ever enjoyed the Black Canary. No, a thousand. Give me more Black Siren. Let her interact with the Arrow crowd, at least for one episode. Send her over to Legends of Tomorrow to see her take on Sara. I don’t even care, because I want it all in a way that I never wanted anything with Laurel Lance.
Even the costume was better!
I loved her! She was so powerful and power hungry! She knew to look out for number 1 (herself) despite the loony bin threat, known as Zoom, right in front of her. I’m glad that they didn’t kill her. She can return to the Flash verse one day. What if Sara sees her when she returns and they have an epic showdown?! OMG I want that! The angst!
Ever since The Flash saved Wally’s life it’s kind of been an eye-opening experience for Wally. In this episode we saw Wally wanting to go out in dangerous situations and protect people – because he wanted to prove to The Flash that he was worth saving. What were your thoughts on that?
No lie, when I was watching that scene where Wally told Joe that he wanted to prove to The Flash that he was worth saving I said, “Just like Roy.” As in, Roy Harper from Arrow, who had that same epiphany back during Arrow’s first season. If they’re headed where I think they are with this storyline – as Barry will eventually take Wally under his wing and mentor him – then I’m very much looking forward to that. Because I remember when Barry had just acquired his powers and he looked to Oliver as a mentor. Now Barry is stepping into a mentor role, as we saw with him and Kara on Supergirl and now potentially Wally. My baby Barry is growing up.
As for why Wally is doing this, it makes complete sense. Wally began to second guess what he was doing with his life. Near death experiences will do that to you. Also experiences where someone who doesn’t know you gives up their superpowers to save your life will also make you question your worth in this world. I don’t disagree with Wally at all with what he’s trying to do. He’s trying to protect people; to give them a second chance, just like the man that gave him a second chance at life. Finally I’m starting to see where Wally’s journey is headed on this show after some time where I didn’t know what they intended to do with him.
I have enjoyed this storyline about 10 times more than I ever thought I would. I really like family storylines, especially when it’s about families that are not truly related by blood. Barry and Wally are not brothers, and yet they’re family. Iris and Joe make them family. And so, even if Barry mostly gave up his powers for Joe and Iris, in a way, doing so means that Wally is also part of his family. Barry sort of claimed him. And now that Wally knows that it wasn’t just a random stranger who did it, well, this relationship can finally become what it was meant to be. That’s exciting.
It broke my heart and dragged it against the ground. I think this is the first time I’ve ever connected with Wally. His thoughts and feelings in this episode show that he isn’t taking this situation lightly. If someone was willing to give up their powers for him (someone he thought didn’t know him) he’s going to change his life for the better. It’s a wake up call!
Is he going about it the wrong way? Yes. Am I proud of him? Yes. He’s got the hero gene like the rest of the Wests and Barry. And Barry…let’s talk about the fact that Wally knows Barry is the Flash. It’s going to bring them close together and change his entire view on Barry. No more jealousy or anger. Love and brotherly bonding coming our way! I can’t wait.
What are your thoughts on “Invincible?” Sound off in the comments to keep the discussion going!
Join us for another The Flash roundtable next Monday.
The Flash airs Tuesdays at 8/7c on The CW.