‘Miss Scarlet and the Duke’ Roundtable: The Past, The Present & The Season 5 Heartbreak

Welp, if you’re like us, you’re still primal screaming over the recent news about Miss Scarlet and the Duke. The departure of Stuart Martin as Detective Inspector William Wellington was NOT on our season 5 wishlist. Not at all. But we are faced with that reality now. And we here at Fangirlish have some things to say about it. So, in typical Fangirlish fashion, we’re letting out our feelings in a Miss Scarlet and the Duke roundtable.

Let’s begin with an upbeat question. What’s your favorite episode of this show and why? What is your favorite moment between William and Eliza?

Rachel: I think I have to say my favorite episode is a tie between 2×06 and 4×03. There were just so many satisfying things about the second season finale. Eliza (Kate Phillips) faced the clever criminal from the very first episode of this show and got the better of him AGAIN. Also, Fitzroy stood up to his father while rallying support for William so William wasn’t relocated to Glasgow. Eliza almost voiced her feelings for William, too. I loved it. Meanwhile, 4×03 is the flashback episode that was a shipper’s dream. Young Eliza and William were perfect.

My favorite William and Eliza moment is probably the fake proposal story in the season three finale. William is technically dating someone else at the time but his feelings for Eliza are clear. That kind of moment that builds OTPs.

Amanda: I think a lot about the almost-confession from 2×06, but now knowing that we never really get much payoff for it, it feels like getting cheated a little. The flashback episode is so good — especially because the young actors are spot on with getting the mannerisms and speech cadences perfect. But I’m going with the now-bittersweet obvious one: William’s love confession and the present-day kiss in 4×04. I squeed at the TV watching that episode because it was so satisfying. I love a real, good slow-burn in today’s way-too-fast TV pace, and it’s just a bummer now that this was actually the end, not the beginning, for them.

Gissane: It’s hard to say with this show—I never had a favorite episode per se, but a bunch of favorite moments scattered throughout. I appreciated so much of what the flashback episode in Season 4 did as a whole to add more layers to William and Eliza’s relationship, but again, in large part, it’s due to all the little moments. Particularly, I’ll always have a soft spot for any time hands are brushed. 

Now to the recent news. How did you react when you first heard that Stuart Martin wasn’t coming back? How do you feel about it now? Do you have any ideas about how the writers will write William out of the show?

Rachel: My reaction was probably comical. I felt myself start to smile as I saw that there was going to be a season 5. But then I gasped when I saw the rest of the news. Then I let out an expletive because it sucks. Now, I’ve moved more toward acceptance but I still hate it. It’s very hard not to feel like I wasted my time a little bit. I’m not sure what Rachael New will do with the character of William. I doubt she will kill him off but who knows? I hope they don’t leave the door open for him to return. That will be like they’re jerking u around as viewers, to be honest.

Amanda: Rachel, you described my reaction to a T. I got halfway through reading the subject line of the email, and then I’m pretty sure my jaw actually dropped open. I’m disappointed, can’t lie. I originally tuned in because the show seemed like the perfect replacement for another period mystery-with-some-romance that I adored (Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries — watch it with the full security of a promised HEA!).

Actors leave and shows can’t control that, but it does feel like a letdown. I keep going back to the obvious comparisons to Sanditon when Theo James left, and I keep asking myself why I ended up actually quite enjoying the latter seasons of that show, perhaps even more than the first one. The answer is, I think there’s one big difference: the level of investment. With Sanditon, you had six episodes over a couple of months, during which Sidney and Charlotte only went through the early stages of a romance.

Miss Scarlet and the Duke, on the other hand, was a true slow-burn over four seasons, which creates a much higher level of emotional investment in that relationship and makes it much harder to disentangle the show from it. All that said, I don’t think they’ll pull a Sanditon and kill William off, since they’ve got the easy out of him just staying in New York. 

Gissane: I’m pretty sure I wrote something like LOL to Amanda. (Amanda here – she totally did !! ) Because I just couldn’t fully grasp that this was real, that after all the buzz they got for finally moving the cards along, they treated viewers like cats with a toy dangling in front of their faces. At some point, you let them have it. You don’t just fully take it away. So it’s just ultimately sheer shock, especially for this show that’s so romantically coded, you can’t deny it. This isn’t fans fishing for something ships, the seeds are all dispersed right in front of us. You have no choice but to go along with it because all the tropes are there. So it felt a lot like yet another betrayal. 

Miss Scarlet and the Duke was a blend of romance and crime-solving. Which of those aspects do you like best about the show and why?

Rachel: As entertaining as the mysteries can sometimes be on this show, the romance was the draw for me. Without a doubt. That possibility was what made me start watching the show in the first place. The title itself signaled to the audience that William and Eliza’s relationship was the core of the show. It’s what made it unique. When any book, movie, or TV show can do a romance well, that is always something to celebrate. 

Amanda: Hear, hear! Romance gets looked down on so much — and so poorly done so often — that it’s refreshing to see a show that (seemingly) does it right. The mysteries were uneven, to be honest, and I say this as someone who enjoys a good mystery series. Some of the cases were delightful, but others barely kept my interest, especially when we got into some of the rough patches of Seasons 2 and 3. I liked the combination of romance and mystery; I don’t know if I’d have tuned in way back at the beginning if it had just been one or the other.

Gissane: I think a lot of people don’t know this about me because it’s not something I write about often, but I adore mysteries, and I especially adore British mysteries. But Miss Scarlet and the Duke pulled me in by combining two of my favorite genres, which was always something I couldn’t fully believe was happening.

If I have to choose, obviously, it’s the romance (romance author here, it’s in my blood), but this show could’ve been so perfect if it’d just stuck to its original premise, which again was this a plan all along, why utilize common romance tropes if it wasn’t? To answer the question, ultimately, it was a fascinating blend of both, but the show does mystery better than it does romance. I’ll go watch reruns of Endeavour if I have to scratch my mystery itch.

Since the show will be called Miss Scarlet from now on, let’s talk about Eliza. What are your feelings about her as a character? Do you think she was a dynamic character from the beginning of the series to the end of season 4?

Rachel: I’ve always liked Eliza as a character. She is a good detective, and she’s what I’ve called chaotic sunshine. I’ve enjoyed watching her. I think she was static as a character, for the most part, until season 4. I felt like William’s absence for the final two episodes of the season started a growth process for her. Unfortunately, that is now in question, which is a shame.

Amanda: Eliza fascinates me as a character because she gets to occupy the role that male mystery heroes so often do: the guarded genius with unconventional methods. She’s the one who holds back her feelings — not just for William, but for others in her life — because she understands all too well how an “emotional woman” will be seen and judged. Unfortunately, that does tend to leave her a bit slow to grow as a character, while others, especially William, grew around her.

I had hoped that the developments at the end of Season 4 would lead to her growing in interesting ways (reopening her own business, and acknowledging her romantic feelings for William), but, alas, it looks like only one of those things will be driving her forward now. And now as I’m writing it, I’m realizing that I’m having flashbacks to the Veronica Mars revival with the “she can’t be a tough detective and be in love” and…eesh. No thanks.

Gissane: Yes and no. I have to echo a lot of what Amanda is saying—she is a trailblazer in a lot of ways, but I also don’t think she’s the right character to stand on her own. She isn’t like Phryne Fisher (Miss Fisher’s Murder Mysteries) whose initial arc from the beginning was carved differently. Eliza see-saws so much between her beliefs that it’s hard to grapple with what she really wants.

At the same time, it feels like the show is adamant about pushing this idea that you can’t be a career woman while having love at the same time, which is just my least favorite faux-feminist argument. bell hooks didn’t write Feminism Is for Everybody for us to shut out the concept of men and relationships in favor of “badassary.” So while I’m proud of Eliza’s growth, especially in Season 4, she has way too much growing to do for me to believe she’s capable of starring on her own.

What do you think Miss Scarlet will be like? Similar to the show we’ve seen so far or different? What do you think is next for Eliza as a character? What do you think will happen to her love life from here?

Rachel: I have a feeling the new era of this show will be more of the same in terms of the cases and the supporting characters. But it will be without the emotional potential at its center that Eliza and William’s relationship represented. No other romantic interest will accomplish that. It’s simply not logistically possible. And, I have to say it: Eliza somehow getting together with Nash will make me want to vomit. I hope she will have professional success but it’s hard to emotionally invest much in that now. The news about season 5 clearly stated they will probably try other romantic partners for Eliza. However, I will not be satisfied watching Eliza with anyone but William.

Amanda: I don’t actually think the plot of the show will change much. As much fun as the romance is, it’s always been a steady thread mostly in the background, rather than the main focus. But I do think the loss of that William/Eliza dynamic (both romantic and not) will be a hard void to fill. I also am not a big fan of the idea of her getting together with Nash — I can see why their shippers like it, in theory, but it just doesn’t land for me. I could see them bringing in a new character, or leaving her single, or, hey, let her have a fling! Ideally, though? I’d like to see it done in a way so that the series finale, whenever it rolls around, leaves it open for William and Eliza to reconnect. Second chance romance, anyone? 🙂

Gissane: We all know I’m a hoe for a second chance romance so I could hope to believe in this idea that maybe, just maybe things could change, but I have a very hard time trusting nowadays. So, honestly, I think much of the show won’t change but it’ll be less exciting and more one-dimensional now.

Finally, the big question: will you continue to watch this show in its new incarnation? Why or why not? 

Rachel: Short answer: No, I can not continue to watch this show without William and his relationship with Eliza. The experience of watching two people come together romantically in the middle of crime-solving adventures was wonderful. But that has to come with the payoff of seeing them actually get together and BE A COUPLE. A romantic pair solving mysteries together is something television has been missing for a long time. Modern-day procedurals are usually too much of an ensemble for that to happen. We will never experience that payoff now.

The thought of what we didn’t get will always depress me. And this is a situation in which I feel a bit betrayed. The writers have broken the promise baked into the very premise of the show (including the title itself). Even bringing Moses back would not be enough to tempt me to watch without William, and I ADORE Moses Valentine! Without William, my interest in this show is pretty much gone.

Amanda: So here’s the thing. I’ve been down this road before with way too many shows I’ve loved that write off a main love interest. Downton Abbey, Sanditon, The Good Wife, etc. The way I’ve often ended up handling it is approaching the post-departure show as a totally different series that just happens to have some similarities. As far as I’m concerned, Miss Scarlet and the Duke ended with William and Eliza acknowledging their attraction, taking some space to figure out how to be together, Eliza hanging her own shingle again, and a hopeful, open-ended future. Miss Scarlet can be the story of a trailblazing female detective on her own, but it simply cannot be the same story. Which I guess is a long-winded way of saying I will probably tune in, at least at the beginning, and see if the “new version” is compelling. 

Gissane: Nope. At least not while William is gone. I have no patience for giving things a try when I feel betrayed by it. But again, at the same time, Eliza isn’t as compelling right now for me to invest in what she wants to do. It’d take them bringing in someone I adore so fervently for me to want to give it a chance again, but as it stands right now, I’m not interested in yet another sad, sad story. Again, the initial marketing of it all is what frustrates me.

If the show had been titled Miss Scarlet from the beginning, I would’ve been less annoyed by this change. I would’ve probably still given it a chance. Look at Chicago Fire and how many good characters have been killed or written off, but we still tune in. And that’s largely because it was never marketed as a straight-up romance that nudges us to invest in a couple that should get a happily ever after.

So, did you have similar feelings about the news for Miss Scarlet and the Duke? Did we cover everything in this roundtable? Let us know in the comments!

Miss Scarlet and the Duke is streaming on PBS Passport and the PBS channel Prime Video.