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‘Arrow’ 4×18 Roundtable: Discussing ‘Eleven-Fifty-Nine’

Comments (5)
  1. Natalie Arsenault McQuilton says:

    Firstly, about Laurel’s declaration and conversation with Oliver – I thought most of it was ridiculous. Had they showed us she was still pining away for Oliver a bit, especially the man he had become, I would have been okay with it. Unfortunately, they showed us something entirely different, so I found it laughable. It perplexes me when Arrow tries to tell us something differently than what they have previously showed us. This whole scene was contradictory. Their relationship was clearly toxic and her declaration sends the wrong message to teenager viewers, especially, about love. I was disappointed. The man who repeatedly betrayed you doesn’t get to be your one true love, even if he did change after the fact. I agree with Lizzie 100% on this one. She could have said she loved and respected the man he had become and that would have made a lot more sense. When she told Oliver she was glad he found Felicity and that she hoped he found his way back to her, I heard a subliminal message being sent to us: Oliver is going to fight for Felicity now instead of moping and feeling sorry for himself. We’ll hear him apologize to her and finally get off his ass and do something about having lost her. Prove to her he is worthy of her. So far, he has done NOTHING. He, basically, let her go.

    I was really thinking that Oliver was going to be the light, the one to pull the rest of the team out of the darkness, to fight in the light and not kill. But, reading your comments, yes, Damian has to die. Andy can join Slade. The final handful of episodes always get more mysterious and chaotic before being wrapped up, often very suddenly. I can’t wait to see how this all unfolds!

  2. Lyla says:

    You know, I know and fully agree that plot-wise season 3 was messy. The Olicity angst was also over the top. But somehow, for me, it had intensity, allure and momentum that S4 for me, until this moment, just didn’t. Starting from Ep15 with Diggle and Oliver fighting/bonding in Nanda Parbat to Diggle’s wedding in Suicidal Tendencies with Deadshot’s demise, to Broken Arrow with Roy in prison, not to mention the incredible heartbreak that was The Fallen. And IMO Neal Mcdonough is a better actor than Matt Nable(Ras) with some exceptional lines this year, but it’s just been a little meh with the whole ”Genesis” for me. BUT Eleven-Fifty-Nine is the first episode this season that I have actually watched twice. Yes, the episode DID start slow, but what I really enjoyed were the the character driven moments and the performances were nothing short of spectacular.
    Now, about the questions. To me the fact that Laurel, probably not in her logical mind, but somewhere deep in her heart, still cherished Oliver as the love of her life seems very possible. Yes, she previously didn’t really show it, because it was always overshadowed by her anger towards him. Whether it was Sara, his unwillingness to train her, kill Malcolm or accept her in the team. But now, when she watches him be this dreamy hero and wonderful boyfriend, I think it could totally be possible, that a nostalgic sense of what could’ve been for HER and him, was still alive there, somewhere. Is it sad? Sure. But ultimately, we don’t choose who we love. And it’s not like she pursued him or stood in the way of Oliver and Felicity. Also, the fact that the writers never gave her an option (after Tommy) to love someone else. Romantically she was shown to be stuck in the past. Idk, for me it was quite believable that by the way she was written, Laurel Lance just couldn’t completely move forward. She also proved it when she dug up Sara’s grave a year after her death. I mean, I KNOW, of course, that was for LoT. But that was also a testament of Laurel not knowing how to let things go. And you know… I know I am totally in the minority here, but I really like when TV shows show the reality of one-sided love stories. They were each others first loves and had a deep story. She stayed there emotionally, he moved on and fell in love with someone else, someone who represented his future, not past. I had no problem with Arrow choosing to let Laurel still love Oliver, as long as they made it crystal clear that Oliver doesn’t feel the same way towards her anymore. Because if there is one thing on this show that just seemed impossible to believe, it was Oliver’s romantic love for Laurel. Actually, during first season I truly believed that Stephen Amell was lesser as an actor just because he was like a rock wall towards Cassidy. Then, of course, came S2 with all the first Olicity heart-eyes and I was like: ”Well, there u go”. Speaking of, Katie Cassidy was 100% the best she has ever been during this episode. It’s like she was FINALLY trying. Maybe that is why I bought it and believed her.
    I think it is pretty clear that Oliver will be the ”light” for them. First, I read Wendy Mericle’s interview where she says the death will mostly impact Diggle and Thea. Second, Amell said that during last episodes we will see ”a more balanced Oliver”.It’s been 4 seasons, it really, truly IS time for someone else to mope around and blame themselves other than Oliver. Or even Felicity who already did that with Palmer this season and, frankly, it is no way her fault AT ALL. Yes, they will all be devastated, but I predict this round will be Diggle’s to fight and maybe, hopefully Lance’s to finish. Not sure if the show is ready to give Quentin such an honor though, he has always been ”the support” and, frankly, as a viewer,I’m not totally sure I believe he is physically capable of killing Damien, but that would be interesting to see. As for Merlyn, no way they are killing him now, this season. I somehow feel they will go with Merlyn ultimately being the big bad of S5, thus, bringing it full circle, giving John Barrowman all the possibilities to shine. And then, I think with the end of S5, their originally planned run, we will most likely see Malcolm defeated for good. Truthfully, there is so much emotional baggage between him and the whole team, that it would certainly give extra gravitas and meaning.

  3. Lyla says:

    Also, did anyone else smirked/giggled/rolled eyes when Oliver was the only one left out of the ”I love you”?! Now, there could’ve been many ways to make that look normal. Like make Diggle say it first, then move to Thea, then Felicity, and Oliver stays off camera at that last moment. At this moment it was edited as though the camera even lingered a sec on him, waiting for it, and then it specifically wasn’t said. Btw, there is no doubt, Oliver loves Laurel. In a platonic way, but, of course, he does. It’s just I can’t help but feel that the show tried quite hard to show us that while he does love her, he often doesn’t particularly like her very much. When Alex asked him to ”cut her out”, Oliver didn’t seem that sad about the idea, just decided to do the honorable thing when Thea reminded him that Laurel is like family. But we don’t always like all our family members, do we? The brutal coldness towards Laurel after she brought Sara back this year doesn’t even compare to how he treated her in S3. Anyway… to me, and this is obviously subjective, it seems even logical that other people will be more affected by her death than Oliver. Thea, for example, was surely closer to Laurel than Oliver. Taking away the history, they lived together and fought together every night in present day. I think what we will see is a sad Oliver, Oliver who is motivated to avenge Laurel’s death, because she was his partner in crime and childhood friend. But not a devastated, torn Oliver which we would quite surely see if it was Thea, Felicity or Dig in the grave.

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