Every week, Fangirlish writers will be discussing new episodes of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow and sharing their thoughts, feelings, and speculation about the hour’s hot topics in a little something we like to call Fangirlish Roundtables.
Today, we’re breaking down episode six of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow, “Star City 2046,” where we discuss an unrecognizable Oliver Queen, Connor Hawke’s true identity, and where we all want Captain Canary to fly.
What were your overall thoughts on “Star City 2046?”
ALYSSA
This was by far the best of episode of Legends of Tomorrow to date. Episodes like this are what make this shared universe so incredible. Where you can go to Star City 30 years later and come across a familiar face in Oliver Queen, a familiar name in [Felicity] Smoak Technologies and John Diggle Jr., and get a glimpse at a chaotic world that is not set in stone and yet still makes you feel emotional. Original Team Arrow making me emotional 30 years later in a dystopic, likely-not-going-to-actually-happen Star City. Legends of Tomorrow exists because of Arrow, and it’s amazing to get episodes like this where there’s such a personal connection for the audience. Time travel is an incredible aspect that flourishes in a world that is connected by three shows and countless characters.
LIZZIE
For such a gloomy episode (which is not very Legends of Tomorrow), I enjoyed it much more than I expected. Maybe it’s because I had Connor Hawke/Oliver Queen feels throughout. Or because Sara is just my favorite LOT character. Or maybe, because this team is actually starting to resemble a team. Legends has reached the point where it either works, or it doesn’t, and though the plot is still suspect at times, Savage is a so-so villain and Rip is just bordering on competent (and that’s being kind), I enjoy these characters too much to give up on this show. So, they must be doing something right.
LYRA
Once again we were given a glimpse at how their actions/inaction could change the future. It’s a concept that is getting a bit repetitive but this is a time travel show so I guess some leeway has to be given. Bonds on the team are tested, some breaking and some forming. We also got to observe the bad line timeline of the Arrow verse that’ll never happen because Guggenheim isn’t that crazy!
We met an Oliver Queen who was unrecognizable in terms of whom he is inside – and of course physically. What were your thoughts on the man that Oliver becomes in this world?
ALYSSA
One of the great things about Legends is that it has the ability to show us things that we never would’ve been able to glimpse on these other connected shows, like Arrow. “Star City 2046” gave us a startling look at what would become of Oliver Queen in the future should he lose everything he loves most: Felicity, Diggle, his friends, and his city.
This hit home personally because I feel like it was a haunting look at what could’ve been of Oliver in Arrow in the present years had it not been for Diggle and Felicity’s influence in his life. In my review I pointed to a parallel between 2046 Oliver in the lair and Oliver in the first lair back in season 3 when he seemed content to subject himself to dying alone in this cave. But Diggle and Felicity helped pull him back from that darkness. We’ve seen Oliver on Arrow nearly succumb to the darkness completely, but he’s always had a guiding hand to pull him back. But what would happen if he didn’t? Meet the 2046 version of Oliver Queen, only a present-day version of this “half of a man” most likely wouldn’t make it to 2046. But with his old friend Sara stepping up to inspire him and Connor Hawke later joining forces with him, perhaps this weathered version of Oliver Queen can become even a fraction of the man we know him to be on Arrow at present.
LIZZIE
As much of a shock as it was to see him, it wasn’t really a shock to see him, if that makes any sense. Oliver has always had the potential to shut himself off, to hide in his pain. He cares too much, and that’s both a good thing, and a bad thing. The more you care, the more it takes a toll on you. And by it, I mean the world. If Oliver is a functioning human being in the present, it’s merely because he’s not alone. With all the people he loves gone, Oliver can only do what he does best – retreat. It’s the only way he knows to survive.
LYRA
This is the Oliver who ends up alone and has all his fears about losing his loved ones come true. This is also the Oliver that ends up in super brooding mode in the home he made with his loved ones. A glimpse is all I ever want to see of this shadow of a man. Old Man Oliver who is alone and lost will never happen because Team Arrow is stronger than Slade Jr. No matter what the timeline tries to show it’ll never happen because I have hope.
One of the shocks and pleasant surprises in this episode was that Connor Hawke is in fact John Diggle’s son, Diggle Jr. What were your thoughts on Connor and his taking up the Green Arrow mantle?
ALYSSA
When it comes to these superhero adaptations one of the things that we’ve learned is that the canon on the show is nothing like the canon in the comics. We were warned that in this Arrowverse that Connor Hawke isn’t the son of Oliver Queen and Sandra Hawke, but I still somehow suspected that Connor might have blood ties to Oliver. But what Legends did was so much better than what I could’ve expected when it was revealed that Connor is actually John Diggle Jr., our beloved Diggle’s future son. The reveal itself was a pleasant shock that really made this episode for me. It was great to see Connor step up in a dark time and take on the mantle of Star City’s green-hooded hero because it was the right thing to do. Like father, like son.
There was a beauty to it that came with Connor teaming up with Oliver like his father had done. The parallels, the love, and the care damn near killed me. It’s like everything had come full circle. This mission started with Oliver and Diggle and it would end with Oliver and Diggle Jr. I’m starting to tear up just thinking about it. So it seems only right that Connor fight alongside the man that his father fought alongside for years and years. I mean in a way Oliver is Connor’s uncle.
LIZZIE
FEELS. Maybe this is just a reflection of how much I love Diggle, but seeing his son out there, wearing the Green Arrow costume, was probably the highlight of this episode. Well, that, coupled with the fact that, in a way, he was doing it to honor Oliver AND his father. Because that means that, even if the world is messed up, even if everyone died and Felicity left, Diggle Jr. still feels like these people are his family. And that says a lot.
LYRA
It was heartbreaking to think of this young man still fighting against the forces that had taken on Star City for his father. That a part of him felt guilt for the role he played in his father’s death. It felt like jumping into the last couple chapters of a book and having no way to look back and seeing how Connor learned how to shoot? Where Sara Diggle ended up? Where’s Felicity? Even though this is the bad timeline I want answers. I want more. I want to see this young man’s struggle to survive all alone (well not all alone, he’s still got Santa Oliver.)
While this world was only a potential future, we saw Sara struggle with what has become of her city and Oliver. What were your thoughts on that? And how did you react to this version of Star City?
ALYSSA
No matter how many times I tried to tell myself that this was only a potential future if Vandal Savage won, I had a difficult time acclimating to what Star City had become in this post-apocalyptic 2046 world. So I can’t even imagine what Sara was going through as she walked through her city and looked at what destruction had overcome it. It’s really too much for one to expect to handle no matter how strong they appear to be. And telling her that it wasn’t real, like Rip did throughout this episode, didn’t help matters. It was kind of like The Flash’s Barry on Earth-2 when he met these dopplegangers of the people he loved. It didn’t matter that they weren’t his Joe and Iris because no matter where he is he’ll always feel the need to love and protect them. The same goes for Sara, as she came across a weathered version of her old friend Oliver and learned the fates of some of her loved ones – her father and Diggle were both dead while Felicity had left town.
But honestly my first reaction to seeing this version of Star City was thinking to myself: is this what would’ve happened had Slade Wilson and his Mirakuru army been successful in the season two finale? It was scary because this is a city where many characters that I love have lived. This felt personal. So while it was reassuring to hear this future wasn’t set in stone – and likely wouldn’t ever come to pass – it doesn’t change the fact that seeing Star City in ruins rocked me to my core, as it did Sara.
LIZZIE
I’m very zen about this version of Star City, mostly because, yeah, no way this is coming true. NO way. Sara’s reaction, however, was perfectly understandable. Sometimes Rip expects people to behave like robots, and I’m glad the team has been calling him out on his hypocrisy the last few episodes. This might not matter in the long run, but it matters now, and Sara being the person that she is, she just couldn’t let it go.
LYRA
Well…right after the Olicity breakup on Arrow I immediately thought these are the consequences of them breaking up! Lol. But seriously, this is the bad time line Abed from Community used to go on and on about. This is where all hopes are lost and the world is a big ball of suck. We don’t want this future and apparently Sara agrees. This version of Star City definitely brought up feelings of guilt for leaving her home behind for an opportunity to become a Legend with Rip. If anything this fueled her to do better by her team, destroy Savage, and get home. She’s not just on this journey to discover who she is anymore. It’s now about protecting her home and family. It’s about getting back to her home, where she belongs.
We saw the return of Deathstroke, who was actually Slade Wilson’s son who took up the mantle, who led an uprising and the destruction of Star City. What did you think of Grant? Who’s the better Deathstoke?
ALYSSA
There’s no question Slade Wilson is the better Deathstroke. His son merely came off as arrogant, annoying, and easily defeated. Seriously, how has no one beaten this guy already? It really says something when the suit puts more fear into me than this pathetic excuse for a villain who has taken up his father’s mantle as Deathstroke. Honestly, he’d be ashamed.
When I think of Slade Wilson I think of Arrow’s most intimidating and intriguing villain that elevated the show’s second season to elite status. Manu Bennett’s portrayal of that character along with his and Stephen Amell’s dynamic as Oliver and Slade was unlike anything we’ve seen since regarding the villain front. So it’s a damn shame that DC Comics and Warner Bros. films have taken Slade Wilson from the show because he has some future in the movie universe. But isn’t the point of separate universes to ensure that there can be different versions of the character both on television and in movies? Warner Bros., you’re doing it wrong. Give us Slade Wilson back.
LIZZIE
He doesn’t even come CLOSE to his father. Kid wasn’t even scary, mostly because he looked like he was 12. I have a hard time believing he bested Oliver Queen and managed to kill off most of the team, but whatever. Apocalyptic future doesn’t need to make sense if we’re not gonna live in it. This is like a glitch in the Matrix. It doesn’t exit. It never will. So I can forgive all the inconsistencies. It’s like an AU universe. Yes. That.
LYRA
Slade Jr. needed to keep the mask on. With it he had a chance of scaring people with his mystique and hidden depths. Without the mask he looked like a wimp who was playing dress up. He didn’t look like a threat all. Butttt you shouldn’t judge a book by its cover and all that jazz. He must of been doing more in the background if he gained control of Star City and kept it. At the end of the day Slade Wilson Sr. wins as Deathstroke for his cunning, crazy, and charismatic nature. Plus those bulging muscles. Now that was a man who looked like he could take you down with his pinkie.
We saw some differing ideologies between Snart and Rory and what’s important on this mission. Do you feel like Snart and Rory are beginning to drift apart?
ALYSSA
With Legends having a diverse cast of characters on this show – from heroes to villains to friends to strangers – this has opened the doors to explore some relationships and how they’re evolving with this new world-saving mission. We’ve seen Leonard Snart, a man who cared about no one but himself, his sister, and his partner Mick Rory, begin to care about the others on his team. In fact, we’ve seen him reference their well-being over doing what he’s known to do, which is steal. No matter how much Snart might not want to accept it, he’s changed as a person because of these people. Maybe it’s not change so much as it’s allowed Snart to finally open up after years of keeping himself guarded following his dark past with his father. This mission isn’t just about saving the world, it’s also about saving this team of Legends from themselves.
Snart definitely seems more open to developing a friendship with this team than Rory, and their relationship has suffered a bit because of it. They’re definitely drifting apart. But this is something that needed to happen between them at some point because there’s just no way they remain the same people throughout this mission. While Rory has shown signs of wanting to embrace the friendship aspect when Ray sacrificed his physical well being to protect Rory, he hasn’t entirely opened up to the idea unlike Snart. So I fully expect there to be more tension between the two of them moving forward, especially considering Snart betrayed Rory in this episode when he knocked him unconscious and dragged him back to the ship.
LIZZIE
It was bound to happen. And with that I mean, yes, of course. We could see Snart buying into the mission a few episodes ago, and Rory clearly is farther off on his journey towards being a hero. Which, I like. I like that Rory gets his own story. I like that he is feeling kinda lost. I like that he saved Ray last episode, despite the fact that he didn’t think it was a good idea. Redeeming characters is not easy, and it wouldn’t work to treat Snart and Roy like a tandem. Each of them deserves to have their own reasons, their own redemption.
LYRA
They’re definitely starting to drift apart. Snart sees this as an opportunity to be more than just a crook. He wants to be seen as a Legend, a badass across time. Rory just wants a slice for himself while he watches the world burn. The longer they’re on this journey the more apparent it becomes that they have two vastly different end games. Eventually they’ll come to an impasse where two man enter and most likely one man exits. Both men are fighters. The only difference is that Snart knows how love and companionship feels like because of how much he cares for his sister. Rory doesn’t have that. He’s missing a core ingredient that makes him a team player. When the time comes Rory will fall behind.
We knew it was coming, but the first signs of romance within the team appeared. What are your thoughts on romance within the team? And do you have any pairings that you like so far?
ALYSSA
To be honest, it’s only natural. When you’re stuck together with a small group of people for an extended period of time and placed in life-and-death situations it’s only natural for some relationships to develop beyond friendship. They are only human, after all. But I wasn’t expecting the whole Ray crushing on Kendra thing. At all. In fact, I still believed that he was pretending as a means to mess with Jax, who actually had an adorable crush on Kendra.
While I headed into Legends firmly believing we were going to get White Atom (Sara and Ray), a pairing that has caught me off guard has been Sara and Snart (Captain Canary), who have shown that you can’t fight organic chemistry and where it takes you. Both characters are doing everything you should do in one of these epic pairings: make the other better. Sara has inspired Snart to be more than just a low-life criminal while Snart has been a guiding force in preserving Sara’s humanity. It’s really something special that I want more of.
LIZZIE
Bring on the romance! At this point, I like Sara with absolutely everyone. You could sell me Sara/Rip, Sara/Snart and Sara/Ray and I’d buy it without problem. I have a little more issue with Kendra. I think I maybe, perhaps, could see Kendra/Ray. There was a moment there, where I thought, hey, maybe this could work. Though, in a way, I feel kinda bad for Ray for thinking this. He already had one relationship with a woman who was clearly meant to be with someone else – and I kind of like Ray enough now that I would rather he be with someone who’s all in, that with Kendra if she’s going to be stuck on the “I was supposed to be in love with Carter” train.
LYRA
Oh romance you say? You mean Captain Canary right? Oh no. You mean Kendra/Ray/Jackson love angle. Well *sigh* I get where they’re coming from. She’s smart, determined, and a badass hawk goddess. What’s not to like? Plus they’re stuck together on an endless loop to save the world. Of course feelings are going to arise. I think the whole thing with trying to sneak around and coerce Ray to not ask Kendra out was shady and not very nice towards their team member. For that I’m down with Ray having a chance. He was sweet and respectful towards Kendra and her decision that maybe this isn’t the best time.
Now let’s talk about the real pairing in the works, Captain Canary aka Leonard and Sara. They have this spark of chemistry between them the left me reeling and wondering if this was the beginning of something. He appreciates her fighting badassery and pushes her to be more than just an ex-assassin. In turn she pushes him and believes that he can be more than just a crook. They want to see the other reach their full potential and have started to go out of their way for the other. Leonard even went against the wishes of his partner to find Sara! It’s the start of something more and I can’t wait for them to explore it more in next week’s episode. Have you seen the pic of them sitting together in the hallway? Feels of OTP are coming!
What are your thoughts on “Star City 2046?” Sound off in the comments to keep the discussion going!
Join us for another Legends of Tomorrow roundtable next Wednesday!
Legends of Tomorrow airs Thursdays at 8/7c on The CW.
