Once Upon A Time Roundtable “Street Rats”

This savior business is not as cool as advertised, is it? After all, it’s not just one big moment of …saving. It’s a constant struggle to save and save and just …save.

People. Things. Savior is something you are 24/7. It’s a second skin. It never comes off.

Or at least that’s what we thought.

Emma Swan is the savior. She’s not the only one, though. She was never meant to be. And maybe that’s the message Once Upon A Time is trying to send through Aladdin. Maybe saviors can take a break. Maybe they do get to live happily ever after.

And boy, do we have a lot of thoughts about all these subjects. So let’s delve into “Street Rats.” Joining me, as always, are Sarah, Caryn – and our guest this week is the always awesome Heather!

Let’s do this!

ONCE UPON A TIME - "Street Rats" - In a flashback to Agrabah, Princess Jasmine recruits Aladdin to help her recover a secret weapon capable of breaking Jafar's hold on the Sultan and saving the city from ruin. Their quest takes them to the Cave of Wonders where Aladdin's fate is revealed. In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings and forces Emma to reveal her secret in an effort to divide the family. While the Evil Queen pampers Zelena, elsewhere in town, Regina and our heroes scramble to learn what became of Aladdin, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, OCTOBER 23 (8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT), on the ABC Television Network. (ABC/Jack Rowand) COLIN O'DONOGHUE, JARED S. GILMORE, LANA PARRILLA, JENNIFER MORRISON

What were your overall thoughts on this episode?  Rate the episode on a scale of 1 to 10.

Lizzie: I think Once Upon A Time has had a good run of episodes since episode 3. This wasn’t as strong as the previous two, but it was still one of it’s good outings, even if some parts of it didn’t really deliver the way the writers expected.  I’ll give it an 8/10.

Sarah: I enjoyed a lot of this episode, but the parts that dragged for me I’d give it a 7.5/10. Meeting Aladdin and Jasmine was awesome and it was good that Emma finally revealed her secret to her family. I just wish I could understand what the point is of Zelena’s storyline with the Evil Queen.  

Caryn: 8/10 for me, I really enjoyed the Jasmine and Aladdin storyline and I hate when characters withhold information so I’m glad Emma’s secret is finally out in the open, even if it did result from Regina turning into Archie – that’s weird.

Heather: I really enjoyed the episode overall. There were some hit and misses for me. While I understand the bonding mani/pedi time to turn Zelena it fell kinda flat for me. With an otherwise intense, dramatic and adrenaline filled episode their scenes felt out of place.  8/10.

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We got to meet Aladdin and Jasmine in this episode. What did you think of their story? Are you looking forward to seeing more of them? What was your favorite part of their interaction?

Lizzie: I adored them – especially in the past. It’s clear that the Jasmine and Aladdin we see in Storybrooke are not the same people that we saw all those years ago. And yet, their beginnings were beautiful and I have a soft spot for the animated version of Aladdin, so I was bound to have a soft spot for these two. Thing is, what we saw already worked out sorta like the movie – except for the happily ever after part, and I’m excited to see their happily ever after – OUAT version, especially since there are still some issues the two of them have to work through, and if Once Upon A Time has proven something, is that it can do couples right. Most of them, at least. *crosses fingers*

Sarah: I loved their story! It was so adorable seeing them bicker on a  heroic quest (cough CS beanstalk cough) and see the beginning of how Aladdin became the savior. My favorite scene, hands down, was when he looked her in the eye and admitted he came back for her. I’m really excited to see how their story plays out in Storybrooke, and I’m hoping they’ll come to realize duty, doesn’t mean you have to keep your feelings tucked away. (If they fly away on a magic carpet together that works too!)

Caryn: I loved the Aladdin and Jasmine storyline, it had a good foundation plus there was a lot to work with as well, as he suggests that the romance aspect of their story did not even begin. It also helped to move along the storyline as to Emma’s role as the savior and if it will be a death sentence for her. The actors also did an amazing job and I’m looking forward to see more of them.

Heather: I loved the introduction of Aladdin and Jasmine. I thought their story was sweet and reminiscent of some of our other favorite couples. I may be in the minority here but I love a lot of the secondary characters. Sometimes more so than some of the mains. I loved their reunion at the end of the episode!

ONCE UPON A TIME - "Street Rats" - In a flashback to Agrabah, Princess Jasmine recruits Aladdin to help her recover a secret weapon capable of breaking Jafar's hold on the Sultan and saving the city from ruin. Their quest takes them to the Cave of Wonders where Aladdin's fate is revealed. In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings and forces Emma to reveal her secret in an effort to divide the family. While the Evil Queen pampers Zelena, elsewhere in town, Regina and our heroes scramble to learn what became of Aladdin, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, OCTOBER 23 (8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT), on the ABC Television Network. (ABC/Jack Rowand) REBECCA MADER

Zelena went wicked – once again. Is anyone surprised at this point? Is redemption even possible for her? And, do you think her bad turn was preventable?

Lizzie: Surprised? No. I think everyone say it coming the second Regina kicked her out, which is why I don’t get how Regina didn’t. It’s one of those instances where plot dictates that a character act stupid, and it bothers me. Thing with Zelena is, she’s still not irredeemable in my eyes, despite the fact that she’s done plenty of bad and questionable things. I guess, on a show about hope, and hey, a show that has managed to redeem the Evil Queen, everything is possible. Everything, that is, but redeeming Rumple. That’d be taking it a step too far.

Sarah: The second Regina kicked her out I wasn’t surprised this happened, even if I hoped otherwise. It might have been prevented if Regina was able to open her heart to her sister, but grief has a way of getting the better of you. Redemption might be possible, but only if she sees that being “strong, powerful and wicked” isn’t all she is. She’s a mother who truly loves her daughter, and that’s a kind of bond that goes beyond her wicked past. I’m hoping she’ll decide to turn against the EQ but it won’t happen if she believes Regina and her family will never truly accept her.

Caryn: I’m not surprised but I am a little bored, Zelena is going through a lot of the same struggles that Regina went through, only she has the Evil Queen egging her on. I don’t think Zelena is beyond redemption, I think this will be part of her story but she will end up being convinced by the ‘heroes’ to team up with them against the Evil Queen.

Heather: I’m not surprised in the least. I think everyone but Rumple is capable of redeeming themselves at this point but it’s a question of whether they really want it and want to put the effort in. We’ve seen that some have taken it head on while others haven’t.

ONCE UPON A TIME - "Street Rats" - In a flashback to Agrabah, Princess Jasmine recruits Aladdin to help her recover a secret weapon capable of breaking Jafar's hold on the Sultan and saving the city from ruin. Their quest takes them to the Cave of Wonders where Aladdin's fate is revealed. In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings and forces Emma to reveal her secret in an effort to divide the family. While the Evil Queen pampers Zelena, elsewhere in town, Regina and our heroes scramble to learn what became of Aladdin, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, OCTOBER 23 (8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT), on the ABC Television Network. (ABC/Jack Rowand) JENNIFER MORRISON

Jafar and Hyde both made it clear at different points that savior’s die. But then again, they’re both villains.  Should we be taking them at their word? Do you think this show can/would ever kill Emma Swan?

Lizzie: I think our heroes really, REALLY need to stop taking the villains at their word. Half the time it’s like a self-fulfilling prophecy, things are only going wrong because they’re doing so much to avoid the outcome the villains have already decried they’re destined for. Bad guys don’t have all the answers – but they do, however, have every incentive to make you believe they do. If our heroes scoffed at them, they’d lose half their power!

As for Emma, short answer is no. Long answer is no way in hell. She’s not dying. If this were, I don’t know, The Walking Dead, or Game of Thrones, maybe. But this is Once Upon A Time – a show about hope, family and true love. There is no happy ending without Emma Swan, and if there’s one show that’s meant to end in happiness it’s this one.

Sarah: Villains are to magicians like smoke is to words they can make everything seem very real, but in the end it’s only an illusion (with a smokescreen) because you’re letting yourself be open to believing what they say. To make it short, no heroes should never take villains like Jafar or Hyde seriously. This show has spent the entirety of its run, building its story and watching it through Emma Swan’s eyes. I never, for a second, will ever be afraid of them killing her off. To see go through it has been an interesting story so far though, that’s for sure.

Caryn: I don’t think the show will kill Emma, not when it might not be the last season. I do think that there will be a last minute save for Emma, but I hope that they mix things up a bit instead of just the same ole drama and the heroes defeating the enemy and saving Emma, maybe Emma does not need to be the savior anymore though.

Heather: I made the ill-timed joke Sunday night that everyone dies (still reeling from TWD). I wouldn’t trust what the villains say. Emma Swan is the show for me. I believe it’d be a huge mistake to kill our heroine. So no, I don’t believe the show will ever kill her, at least not permanently.

Courtesy of http://kissthemgoodbye.net/

Emma’s secret came out – and everyone had a reaction. What do you think of the way each character reacted to the possibility of Emma dying – and the fact that she’d been carrying this burden by herself?

Lizzie: I understand why Emma thought she had to lie – we’ve covered this before. I, however, am glad she’s done with the lying, even if she had to be pushed to tell the truth. The EQ greatly underestimated this family and their love for each other. She thought revealing the secret would break them, and it has in fact made them stronger. Checkmate, EQ.

I felt very connected to Snow’s reaction, and I liked that we got to see Henry get a say, but I will say I’m disappointed that we didn’t get to see Killian react to this verbally, though Colin O’Donoghue is the master of the charged look. Killian was obviously hurt and angry, but he put Emma first, as always, and pushed his feelings aside. Problem is, either they’re discussing these things off-camera, and I don’t see why they would, or this relationship consists of brushing aside a lot of things that should rightly be discussed.

Killian and Emma are not teenagers embarking on their first love – they’re adults on a mature relationship who are planning to spend the rest of their lives together. Things like oh, I was having visions of my death, and the end of that future we planned, are things that need to be addressed. They’re not deal-breakers, nor anything of the sort, but how can the writers expect us to believe Emma and Hook are over these issues if they just brush them aside?

Sarah: Everyone’s reactions very much rang true to who they are and how they relate to Emma. They were all horrified beyond belief and it was so hard to see Emma admit the truth even if I was glad the lying was done (on her part at least). Despite what’s going on with Snow and Charming I was relieved how understanding and honest she was with Emma about forgiveness and about Hook. She was there for her daughter when she needed her most. Henry broke my heart admitting he wished he’d never shown up on her doorstep, holding himself responsible for “making” her be the savior. Her assurance despite what could happen she wouldn’t change a thing because she loves being a mom was one of the best Swan Believer moments I’ve seen in a long time. Killian’s reaction hurt to see but honestly I couldn’t blame him for holding in the amount of pain and horror he must have felt hearing that the woman he loves is “destined” to die.

Caryn: I like the way that Snow and Charming handled the news, they were like typical parents – angry and then they gave her advice. Henry’s reaction was heart-breaking to watch as he blamed himself, and Killian’s was sad as well, knowing that he sees her as the only good thing in his life and his fear that she will be taken from him. It felt honest and real and each of these reactions were so well portrayed and written. I’m glad they sought to include all of this in the episode.

Heather: I believe Henry and Killian took it the hardest. They are after all her true loves. Henry feeling an immense amount of guilt while Killian was hurt, angry, and I’d wager scared. The Charming’s took it as they take everything else, in stride.

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Emma and Snow finally got to have a real mother-daughter talk, and not so surprisingly, they discussed secrets, and how they can damage relationships. Did you miss these two interacting? Do you think Snow’s words are a bad omen considering the secret Charming is keeping? And do you think Emma has learned her lesson regarding Killian?

Lizzie: I like Regina/Snow, don’t get me wrong, but this is the female/female relationship I wish the show had focused more on. These two are the reason I loved Season 1. I wanted to see Emma discover her mother – I wanted to see Snow get to spend time with her daughter. And I know they’re in a good place right now, but that doesn’t mean I want to see any less of these interactions. If anything, I want to see more. I want to see the advice and the leaning on each other. Mother/Daughter relationships aren’t only interesting when they’re bad.

Snow’s words about secrets, yeah, they’re gonna come back to bite her in the ass. Not that I think they’re going to be a deal-breaker, but it was ironic that she got to say them and Emma might have taken them to heart when it’s Charming that’s keeping something from Snow.

The reason I think Emma took them to heart, though, has to do with the fact that she wants what her parents have. She wants that happily ever after that isn’t the end, just the beginning. They’re her role-models. And hopefully, when they get to face their own issues, their daughter can be there to dispense some wisdom of her own. She’s got a true love of her own, after all. She’s got some experience.

Sarah: Their talk reminded me of how they interacted in season one and that was a callback I loved. It was nice to see them talk and be honest like that again on an equal level. Snow’s words, while given in honesty were painful to see knowing Charming was keeping a secret from her. I know it’s going to rear it’s ugly head, but I’m hoping after that comes out they’ll learn keeping secrets is bad no matter what reason you are using to justify it. Emma has learned her lesson, I don’t believe she’ll ever lie like that to Hook again. She loves him and I think knows now keeping things to herself scary or not, never leads to anything good.

Caryn: Well considering the fact that Killian is now keeping a secret from her, I think they have a while to go before they fully have open communication between them. But despite David’s actions, I think Snow’s comments are true, that they need to be able to trust each other in order for their relationship to strengthen. I was not a fan of Emma keeping this from everyone in the first place and I’m glad it’s all out in the open now. Hopefully the same thing will happen with Charming’s secret.

Heather: I have. Their relationship s1 was one of the best. Sometimes wish we could get that back. I do think Snow’s words are going to come back and bite her in the ass. Emma has learned her lesson I think, I would hope so anyway.

ONCE UPON A TIME - "Street Rats" - In a flashback to Agrabah, Princess Jasmine recruits Aladdin to help her recover a secret weapon capable of breaking Jafar's hold on the Sultan and saving the city from ruin. Their quest takes them to the Cave of Wonders where Aladdin's fate is revealed. In Storybrooke, the Evil Queen tricks Hook and the Charmings and forces Emma to reveal her secret in an effort to divide the family. While the Evil Queen pampers Zelena, elsewhere in town, Regina and our heroes scramble to learn what became of Aladdin, on "Once Upon a Time," SUNDAY, OCTOBER 23 (8:00-9:00 p.m. EDT), on the ABC Television Network. (ABC/Jack Rowand) COLIN O'DONOGHUE, JENNIFER MORRISON

Hook’s reaction to Emma’s secret-keeping was subdued. He was angry, yes, but he was supportive in the end. He also kept the magic scissors, instead of getting rid of them. Why do you think he did that? Do you agree with his decision? And, where do you see Captain Swan’s journey taking them this season?

Lizzie: Because he doesn’t want Emma to die? It’s that simple. He did the wrong thing for the right reasons – just like Emma. His reasoning, though, is more interesting than the fact that he did. Why did he keep them? Well, I think because he doesn’t think he can talk to her about it.  They seem like a very balanced and mature couple, but they’re either having in-depth conversations in secret that the writers are not telling us about, or they’re going through normal growing pains. They need to learn to react to things like a team – just like Snowing does.

Will they? I think the answer is obviously yes. That’s the path the writers are on, and I have hopes that this whole storyline means we’ll get to see Captain Swan work on their communication. It seems like every milestone this couple has gone through has been thoroughly earned, and this is going to be no different.

That being said, I have a feeling this season has to end in at least an engagement for them – and if it ends up being the final season for some reason, an actual wedding. They’re the main couple of the show at this point, and that would be the cherry on top of all the happily ever afters.

Sarah: I think he did that because I know he’ll always support Emma,but he’s never been one to permanently cut short his options especially when it’s a way to keep the woman he loves from potentially dying. I don’t like his decision to lie to her about it, but I can understand why he’d keep the shears. He wants Emma to have a safety net. Their journey has been very different this season, they’re navigating on how to truly be in a relationship instead of relying on themselves like they’ve spent most of their lives doing. I think it’s going to take going through this to get to the point where they understand the choice they are making to commit to each other, means good or bad they need to be honest with each other and truly face things together. Going past that, I think their future can only go up from here (and maybe hit a milestone or two that I’m *not* hoping for.)

Caryn: There are so many reasons why Killian could have kept the scissors, but I hope it won’t be another thing that separates them, they have come so far and I think his reaction to the news shows how much he trusts and respects her. I think Killian knows that Emma is beating herself up enough over what might happen and him acting irrational won’t help the situation, he needs to support and help and he is doing that perfectly. I look forward to what happens next for them.

Heather: I think he did that to keep Emma’s options open and because he doesn’t want to lose her. I do and I don’t. I’m conflicted. While I understand keeping them, I think Emma’s wishes should be respected (this is something I think both of them need to work on). Captain Swan will come out the other side stronger and if possible, more in love. Depending on whether or not this is the last season (hoping it’s not) they will probably at the very least be engaged.

Agree? Disagree? Have your own answers to these questions? Are you interested in participating in one of these round-tables? Sound off in the comments below!

Once Upon a Time airs on Sundays at 8/7c on ABC.

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